W2 suitable for longer blades?

Sam Salvati

Sam Salvati

Joined
Aug 6, 2007
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Is W2 suitable for longer blades? Like, CPM30V is great for knives but not suitable for a longer blade, what are some reasons why some steels are not suitable for longer blades(not just expense wise)?
 
Bill Moran said that he thought W2 was not quite as tough as 5160, but had better edgeholding ability. There is at least one person who has used Don's W2 for a cutting comp knife. Don makes some pretty big blades from W2. I have made a couple of rather large bowies from the stuff.
 
Sam,

W2 is very suitable for longer blades, especially with proper forging, thermal cycling and heat treating. Fine grain makes a tougher blade and W2 is capable of Very fine grain.

Typically high alloy steels are not as tough, more brittle and are best used in smaller blades.
 
Just so I am crystal clear, I am talking long blades in excess of 30 or more inches. Don, you are the W2 King :), I appreciate the input. I have a stack to finish already, but was fondling the idea of making a euro one handed sword blade from a bar of the
5/8ths round W2 I have, with one of those wicked spattery/flaming hamon like on your big bowies :).
 
I've Made three katanas out of Dons W2. They all hold a good edge, are a lot springy-er(sp?) than I expected, I got killer hamons, and when first heat treated I took them out in the woods and "cleared brush" with them to make sure they were tough. So that's My story and I'm stickin' with it.

Matt
 
Sam, 30"+ sword from W2, no problem :)

Matt, we need to see pictures :)

Sam, also check out what Walter Sorrels is doing with W2.
 
You can anneal Don's W2 as soft as Silly Putty, so the trick on a long blade may be getting the spine hard enough again...lol
 
Well here you go...
mykissaki.jpg

myken.jpg

kens1.jpg

markdweb.jpg

MY1.jpg

Some of these I know you guys have seen before(You just want Me to try to remember My photobucket password) I'm reworking the "Kill Bill" styled one with a cool new wrap/menuki idea I had, so I'll show more pics of that when I'm done.

Matt
 
Ok. I made a lot of short, strong blades out of W2, and I'm definitely not in the sword league. But I've always read, from many different and skilled authors, that high carbon steels like W2 are not suited for longer blades, as their high carbon content makes longer tools that require flexing properties brittle. Even if properly heat treated with a fine grain, the excess carbon tends to form carbides that embrittle the blade. Softer steels like 5160 or 1050 seem to be the best, as they are tough as well as hard.
Now, not well suited doesn't mean "will shatter as soon as you look at it".
But, in the average, a high carbon steel slender blade will shatter more easily than a lower carbon one.
Most sword blades I've read of were around 0,50 to 0,70 % carbon.
Most japanese blades started indeed from far higher carbon levels, like 1-1,2%, but the forging process dramatically reduced the carbon to the stated levels.
I see many have forged sword blades out of W2, but it would be interesting to know if any carbon drop happened during the forging process.
 
Minor carbon drop does happen during forging, how much depends on the smith and number of heat cycles done. The Japanes swords do start with a higher content but most smiths rely on a low carbon core to absorb shock. I watched show on modern steels vs old steel on PBS not too long ago. Some one made a Katana out of 1086M with the help of Howard Clark. It was heat treated in salt baths and had a nice hamon. They then finished it out (sort of) and compared cutting abilities with a traditionally made Katana from Japan. Various cutting tests were completed including armor cutting and the edge being shot with a lead bullet. The new blade help up better than the traditional Katana. The traditional sword chipped out on the armor cut while the new material held up great. Both handled the bullet test well. I would have to say that seeing this test tells me that properly Heat Treated modern steel in the .85-1% range will hold up as well or better than lower carbon .5-.6% steel and possibly better than traditional steels.
 
It's funny, but the "traditional" sword they were using during the cutting demos was if I believe a Paul Chen make for the Bugei company. I bet that a Howard Clark 1086M will out cut and hold up to stresses better than most traditional katana.

-Mike Sheffield
 
Yea I cannot remember the name of the maker for the traditional sword, I do remember the guy cutting said it was a very expensive 10k + sword. I also loved the look on his face when the blade chipped on the armor. I could see the $$$ going of in his head now that it needed to be repolished. He also passed on the second armor cut but did allow the bullit test. Still impressive though.
 
I swear to goodness it's just a Paul Chen. The sword that was made by the smith in Japan was not used...also the guy doing the cutting is the owner of Bugei. The sword he was using was I bet a Hanwei sword. It cost him no where near 10K.
 
Alarion, 1% carbon is not too much for a sword. 5160 or L6 would probably make a tougher sword but W2 will make an exceptional sword with no worries of braking it and probably cut better. It really is all in the heat treatment.

I know of at least one sword maker who switched from 1086M to W2 and likes the W2 better.

Any of these steels will make a find blade, if the smith knows what he's doing. :)
 
Could be a Paul Chen. I just remember the statement of a sword he had there as being 10k+. The one he did have was folded steel. I do not know anything about Bugei, I bow to the more knowledgeable on that issue.
 
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