W2 suitable for longer blades?

Mike is right, the cutter was James Williams from Bugei, using a bugei/paul chen sword. The sword they saw made in Japan was being made by Ono Yoshimitsu, and was not the one seen later on in the cutting "contests".
 
Then i ask the question what was the point? It was supposed to be old VS new not new Vs new. I am dissapointed....My bubble has been burst:jerkit:
 
Yeah Chuck most of that show was TOTAL BS and hype, that chad guy was a total moron LOL, I thought the coolest parts were seeing Howard and his shop and the forging and salt pot montage clips, as well as the small forging bit with Yoshimitsu san.
 
Well that should tell you if W2 is suitable for a sword then... 1086M is very close to W2. Maybe a little less carbon. Still makes a cool blade...
 
WOW step away for a day and tons of interesting posts.

First, Thanks for the comment Don, from you that means a lot.

Second, When I made these three I was kind of worried about them being brittle, but I beat the snot out of them after heat treating. I did some " forest management" with them, cut a ton of cardboard (sometimes in 4"X4" taped together blocks which sometimes I could not get through) and I was surprised how tough and flexible the blades were, And don't get Me started on how much I would have to bend them to get out some heat treating warps:rolleyes:. The only thing I would say is I tempered them at 475F which is a little higher than I normally would but it seems to work for Me.

Matt
 
matt venier said:
WOW step away for a day and tons of interesting posts.

First, Thanks for the comment Don, from you that means a lot.

Second, When I made these three I was kind of worried about them being brittle, but I beat the snot out of them after heat treating. I did some " forest management" with them, cut a ton of cardboard (sometimes in 4"X4" taped together blocks which sometimes I could not get through) and I was surprised how tough and flexible the blades were, And don't get Me started on how much I would have to bend them to get out some heat treating warps:rolleyes:. The only thing I would say is I tempered them at 475F which is a little higher than I normally would but it seems to work for Me.

Matt
Click to expand...

475 is my standard temper for Don's W2 for knives.
 
matt venier said:
WOW step away for a day and tons of interesting posts.

First, Thanks for the comment Don, from you that means a lot.

Second, When I made these three I was kind of worried about them being brittle, but I beat the snot out of them after heat treating. I did some " forest management" with them, cut a ton of cardboard (sometimes in 4"X4" taped together blocks which sometimes I could not get through) and I was surprised how tough and flexible the blades were, And don't get Me started on how much I would have to bend them to get out some heat treating warps:rolleyes:. The only thing I would say is I tempered them at 475F which is a little higher than I normally would but it seems to work for Me.

Matt
Click to expand...


Excellent testimony! What did you quench into?
 
Matt, do you also have some pics of your set up?

Do it Sam. Make sure you are pic heavy with this one.

-Mike Sheffield
 
Hey Sam
I do the Walter Sorrells 5 seconds into 90Fish water then into 350F peanut oil then bring the peanut oil up to 475 to temper for an hour then do another temper or two later.

Mike
I don't have any pics of My set up but for heat treating but I'll tell you about it. I made a heat treating oven out of a 100lb propane tank( 2" koawool with a thin coat of satanite, one t-rex burner and a thermocouple hooked up to a pid controller), a plywood quench tank out of one sheet of 3/4" plywood and silicone caulk, a metal trough out of a 4"X6"X 48" square steel tube which I use a 24" BBQ burner under it to heat the oil. It all works reasonably well but it ain't no computer controlled salt pots that's for sure!

Matt
 
Matt, How do you keep all 90 fish in the quench tank:D:D I might have to play with that process. Sounds interesting.
 
:Oh Crap!! I just gave out the big secret!!:D:D:D

Matt

PS I actually had to reread my post to figure out where that came from:p
 
Kevin might have some better info, but I have thought that the 5 second quench ( to drop below the pearlite nose) and immediate transfer to 350F ,then 450F for several hours soaking would create a bainite (or bainite/martensite mix) blade. Bainite is pretty tough, and should hold up well in a sword. Done right you might get a martensite Ha and a bainite Hiraji and Shinogiji.


Quote:
":Oh Crap!! I just gave out the big secret!!"
Shouldn't that have been,
"!!Oh Carp!! I just gave out the big secret!!"

Stacy
 
It was not the 5 seconds Stacy it was the 90 fish. We are all off to the pet store to buy 90 goldfish.:eek::D:eek: Does the color matter:D:D:D:D
 
bladsmth said:
Kevin might have some better info, but I have thought that the 5 second quench ( to drop below the pearlite nose) and immediate transfer to 350F ,then 450F for several hours soaking would create a bainite (or bainite/martensite mix) blade. Bainite is pretty tough, and should hold up well in a sword. Done right you might get a martensite Ha and a bainite Hiraji and Shinogiji.


Quote:
":Oh Crap!! I just gave out the big secret!!"
Shouldn't that have been,
"!!Oh Carp!! I just gave out the big secret!!"

Stacy
Click to expand...

*disclaimer - assume i'm talking out my bum and don't really know any of this*

In order to form form bainite, in rough terms, the idea is to bring the steel up to its proper aus temp, and move ALL carbide into solution, then you must cool to the upper bainite range for the steel WITHOUT beginning martensite transformation.

afaik anything below 600 in Matt's example will not show a significant Bainite transformation


Sources:
http://www.journalarchive.jst.go.jp...ssue=8&startpage=629&lang=en&from=jnlabstract

http://web.utk.edu/~kjohann1/mse201/lab4.pdf


Bainite: A eutectoid transformation product of ferrite and a fine dispersion of carbide, generally formed at
temperatures below 840 to 930 F (450 to 500 C): upper bainite is an aggregate containing parallel lath-shape
units of ferrite, produces the so-called feathery appearance in optical microscopy, and is formed at temperatures
above about 660 F (350 C) ; lower bainite consists of individual plate-shape units and is formed at temperatures
below about 660 F (350 C). Also, a slender, needle-like (acicular) microstructure appearing in spring steel strip
characterized by toughness and greater ductility than tempered Martensite. Bainite is a decomposition product
of Austenite best developed at interrupted holding temperatures below those forming fine pearlite and above
those giving Martensite.
 
Matt/Walter's method IMHO seems to be an attempt to marquench, get the steel beneath the pearlite nose then hold it above the ms start point, or only allow to form a small amount. Once it has equalised, you can yank it out and let it smoothly and calmly form martensite in the air, then drop back in for a temper at 450.
 
You guys are right, I'm remembering in Centigrade ,not Fahrenheit ( one of the problems with working in both systems). It be more of a marquench, not an ausquench (which forms bainite).Got to think faster this early in the AM.

Chuck,Yep the new quench media is fish...... that's why I said - "Oh Carp...."
Stacy
 
I didn't see the program. But, Paul Chen does have a line of folded steel swords.In the line of $650-$1200.
 
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