Wanted: Knife that can survive chopping steel bars

Joined
Jul 31, 2002
Messages
2,954
No, I'm not a troll. I'm not new to knives. I'm serious. If you will kindly read how I broke my Bowie knife posted on the general discussion forum, you should understand where I'm coming from. You'll also notice I said "survive" after hitting steel. I don't expect zero damage, and I will never intentionally chop steel with it.

Now, having got all the unpleasantness out of the way, what will it take? Here's the requirements: 22-24 inches long overall, Sheffield style clip point Bowie blade. It will be quick and light for its size, convex edged, sharpened false edge over half its length. It will mostly be used for slashing/chopping, but must retain a slender enough point for occasional stabbing. I plan on grinding the blade out myself from bar stock, and finding a highly qualified smith to differentially heat treat it. I will use whatever steel he feels most comfortable working with, as I realize the heat treatment is the most important part. Just so it's at least a decent high carbon steel.

The real areas where I need advice are: Can anyone recommend a heat treater? Can I make the edge thin enough for efficient coon killing, yet be strong enough to survive nasty steel bars and concrete floors? I found out the hard way that stainless steel can't take it. (as several people have said in the past) How hard can I go with the edge? I really don't want to go below 57 Rc if possible, because I've found that below that, edge damage actually gets worse from things like concrete. I do know for a fact that what I'm asking is possible, I'm just not completely sure how to accomplish it.
 
"steel bars and concrete floors" the heck with just a mortals Bowie knife, they will not do, what you really need is Thor's Hammer, you could use a normal Bowie on everthing else! :p LOL hehe

James
 
You are going to use a bowie with a 16" to 18" blade for coon skinning? Talk about not using the right tool for the job. A 22"-24" knife is not meant for finesse cutting.

Contact some of the makers that are famous for their bowies. I am sure they can make you a big one out of A-2 or 5160 that will stand up to the steel bar or concrete without being destroyed.
 
Moving to the bladesmith area where other makers can assist with the technical data.
 
one of the pistol knives will work fine. all i use is that crummy stainless stuff. :) all kidding aside. if you are going to grind the blade you could learn how to heat treat.
 
Dude,
You need a khukri. For the abuse level you are putting a knife through it is the only thing that comes to mind.

May I suggest that you check out the Himilayan Imports forum?
 
Sorry to have thrown out that jumble of disjointed thoughts all at once like that. Let me try to explain my situation a little better. :)


If you're an animal lover, please accept my apologies and scroll past this paragraph.
Thanks all for the thoughts, but this knife is not for skinning anything. It is for killing raccoons, possums, and finishing off the occasional coyote or even deer if I get the chance. It is for cutting them in half. Removing their heads as they try to run by. Pinning them to the ground. Et cetera. That's why I need the length. I need to be able to easily reach them when I'm chasing coons on the ground, and I need to keep my hand far enough away when I stick them, and I need the power to deliver a mighty blow. The best knife I've ever used for this was my 21" long Bowie knife (may he rest in peace). I figured I'd add a few more inches and a bit more belly so I'd have more room to grind out all the nicks that will eventually happen.

Now, this Bowie finally broke when I accidentally hit a steel bar while cutting a raccoon in half. I was swinging will all my might. In the past, this same knife had hit steel pipe, concrete floors, gravel driveways, rocks hidden in the dirt, and high tensile steel cable. In every case previous, it survived with only minor nicks in the edge.

Thank you all for pointing out suitable makers. I would LOVE a pistol knife, and a dozen big Bowies from various makers. However, I'm flat broke. In fact, I'm in debt. That's partly why I want to make it myself. So, do any of you fine gentlemen offer heat treating services to other makers? I would like to eventually learn how to heat treat, but I need this knife fairly quickly since my regular piece broke unexpectedly. Also, I don't want to take the chance of screwing up the heat treat, and have my knife break again after pouring so much work into it.

Thank you for taking the time to suggest knives, but Kukri and Busse stuff isn't really suited to my purpose. They're too heavy for the quickness I need, and are unsuited for stabbing. (I'm often in cramped quarters where I can't get a good swing.)
 
Well hot damn!
Somebody who actually uses a knife for its intended purpose. I would go with S30V or 5160 or S5 or S7. S5 or S7 is Hi-Shock industrial grade knife steel that can be air hardened.
Use that and get a Paul Bos HT you will have what you want.
Just about any steel hard enough to chop mild steel is usually too brittle for that type use.
Guess what the knife will usually break on you after creating stress fractures you probably can't even see or feel untill it's too late!
 
OK Im over my shock of someone actually killing live animals with a knife. I did kill a toad once with one so Im not exactly a novice at it. I say that 5160 steel would meet your needs but dont expect any maker to guarantee it against steel and concrete cutting. It will do everything else with ease but may chip (not Break) with steel and concrete. Bruce Evans can make a user like that in a couple hours for a reasonable price. After all it dont have to be pretty, thats when prices go up. He makes some of the best Bowies in the country. Give him an email. Cant remember his email address. It all over this forum though.
 
Thanks for the kind words Bruce B.

Possum,5160 differentially heat treated will do what you are wanting,That is what the Kukries are made from(this is what I have heard)Jeep springs if I am correct.
If you would like I can do the heat treat for you,Email me and we can disuss the grind you are wanting and about the heat treating.
Other wise there are allot of other great makers here that could heat treat a carbon steel blade for you.
Bruce
 
Originally posted by the possum
...I would like to eventually learn how to heat treat...
Check your local library system for books on knife making. Most such books will have some info on heat treating. That way you get the info without spending any cash. Otherwise, you might ask here if anyone has a book covering HT that they would loan you.

There seems to be a lot of HT info already in Shop Talk forum, but I usually find it scattered in among other topics. A search will bring it up for you. I've put a few links on HT at the bottom to get you started.

Another possibility is a search of the web for a heat treat FAQ.

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=108200
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=109278
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=142067
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=186773
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=196525
 
Why not trap them and then you would keep the hides intact and pay off your debt by selling furrs.A half a hide ain't worth nothing.Last I checked a Racoon hide is worth 40.00 ea and a Opossum was worth 8.00a hide when I was a kid so I'm sure there worth more now . There also worth more as a whole critter than if you skin them.
Then you could buy a really nice custom knife from one or more of the talented makers on this forum.
 
I've hunted racoon and coyotes for years and I have never seen or even heard of such a thing. I sure wish you lived closer so I could follow you around with my camcorder for a few days, it would have to make for a very interesting video. A good cheap 22 would save you a lot of wear and tear, and like Mr. Onion states you'll end up with some saleable furs. Then a small 2"-3" blade will do the skinning.

Just my 2 cents, happy hunting. :D

Bill
 
Maybe it's not my business but, I have to ask....Are you hunting ? or just killing them ? How would you hit metal and concrete if you are hunting them in the wild and lopping heads off ? Hunting with the knife has got to be a hell of an experience though but how dos metal and concrete come into play ?
 
Back
Top