Warm, socks, gloves, boots, etc.

annr said:
. . .
Thomas,

I found this on the web and thought it seemed pretty crediblehttp://www.best4body.co.uk/index.php?d=best4feet&PHPSESSID=75438042a82ca09fa7e064797db50145

:thumbup: Moisture Management
Silver accelerates the evaporation of moisture so that Foot perspiration is reduced, thus creating a dryer foot climate which in return cures and prevents new infections of Athlete Foot. Blisters and swollen ankles and legs can be prevented.
:thumbup: Temperature Regulating
Silver regulates the core body temperature to 37°C and therefore minimizes radiative heat loss by actively reflecting the body's energy back to the skin. Therefore BEST4FEET with Natural Silver Fibre will keep you warm in winter and cool in the summer."
Click to expand...
Sellers make all sorts of claims. Why do you find these claims credible?

You wrap yourself in silver and your core body temp is regulated to 37C? (98.6F).

How does that claim match the claims of other sellers that it reduces body temperature?

Why does the U.S. manufacturer only claim that it prevents microbiological growth -- less odor/no foot rot? That's why the U.S. military says its using socks with silver.
 
I'm with the hat guys. If you have a good coat, decent boots, gloves and hats, I think it's the best bang for the buck addition you can make.
 
Hi All-

The bee's knees for socks can be found at SmartWool not to mention their fantastic premium-quality garments. A thin wool or polypro inner layer coupled with a thicker wool expedition-weight sock and you'll be super-dry and comfortable. Thicker socks are preferred if sitting in a stadium or a treestand generating minimal bodyheat.

As has been stated before about garments, cotton kills. It is fine for summertime barbecue parties, but that is about it. My favorite is polypro against the body, a form-fitting wool zip-front jersey, a Mountain HardWear fleece jacket, and a GoreTex outer garment. This combination works great for hiking in virtually all winter weather conditions and can be adjusted to prevent overheating. A hat, gloves, and artificial fiber scarf are critical things to have along. Stick to something washable for the scarf because they get dirty or occasionally full of snot. :)

~ Blue Jays ~
 
Thomas Linton said:
Sellers make all sorts of claims. Why do you find these claims credible?
Click to expand...


You're right. Looks like I need to retrace my steps and get back to you on this one--if possible--I knew I asked that question for a reason.

Re: Smart Wool socks: luv 'em, even wear them in the summer.
 
Hi annr-

There is no doubt that SmartWools are a bit pricey and worth every dime. They don't absorb odors at all and if handwashed in camp or a hotel sink they'll be dry on the line within an hour or two. They also wear like iron and it's not unusual for a single pair to last several years with the elastic still gripping well. My favorite low-cut summer sock is the Adrenaline model which I couple with Salomon or Vasque trail shoes, depending on my mood.

For cooler weather my preference is for the expedition-weight hikers. I also use their ski-specific sock for downhill skiing and their mid-calf length cycling sock under tights for winter bicycling. The're a top-notch firm.

~ Blue Jays ~
 
Foot care:

Coat your feet in roll-on antiperspirant. Sounds icky... Bear with me. NOT deodorant! You want DRY feet!

I'm a fan of light weight liner socks under thick wool socks too.

In very cold weather, consider Vapor Barrier Liners (VBL).


Make sure that your boots are sized large enough to accommodate the added thickness of extra layers on your feet!!! Otherwise, you'll just squeezze your feet=less blood flow=cold feet!!!

The warmest footwear I've found are Mukluks. For Dry cold...

(www.mukluks.com) They last forever!!!

I'd go with Sorels for wet cold.

I wear liner gloves under mittens as well.
 
Hi Knife Doctor-

Those mukluks look like they might be great for stomping around looking for a Christmas tree, watching a New Year's parade in frigid weather, or braving an icy-cold football stadium. Beyond that, the suede uppers look like they would soak dirty and slushy water like a dry sponge!

~ Blue Jays ~
 
Blue Jays said:
Hi annr-

My favorite low-cut summer sock is the Adrenaline model which I couple with Salomon or Vasque trail shoes, depending on my mood....expedition-weight hikers. The're a top-notch firm.

~ Blue Jays ~
Click to expand...

Hi Blue Jays,

I felt a little self-consciouse buying my first pair of Adrenaline SmartWools when I got a new pair of trainers this past spring, just so pricey. Since, I have bought nearly ever style, thickness and length, incl. the expedition-weight. This winter I'll put them to the test.They seem to go with eveything, I even got black for my professional engagements. Can't beat the comfort, ease off washing...I'll stop.

Re: the elastic, I learned somewhere that if you "fold" the socks in half, rather than folding them over themselves at the top the elastic doesn't wear out so quickly. Also avoiding really hot washers and dryers is supposed to help. Sometimes I just use the sun and the window ledge to dry.
 
Blue Jays said:
Hi Knife Doctor-

Those mukluks look like they might be great for stomping around looking for a Christmas tree, watching a New Year's parade in frigid weather, or braving an icy-cold football stadium. Beyond that, the suede uppers look like they would soak dirty and slushy water like a dry sponge!

~ Blue Jays ~
Click to expand...

Mukluks are designed for weather so cold that there is no "slushy water" -- the snow is like sand. I wore a pair every day to school. The outer was untreated, unbleached cotton canvas - that over thick layers of wool felt. In an Alberta winter, they worked just fine. In an Ohio winter, they would have been a poor choice.
 
I have a pair of Danner boots in EE that I'm really pleased with - I think they make most of their styles in wide. Given their price Danner's are a real investment, so be sure to take proper care of them.
 
I, too, have wide feet and have had to search for boots that will accommodate my foot size. Here are some companies that make (at least some) models in width options:

Vasque - Some of their boots come in widths.
Cabelas - Many of their shoes have widths. Order a catalog online from them.
Meindl - A German company. You can purchase them through Cabelas.
Danner - They make high-quality boots.
Dunham - they either own or are owned by New Balance. This is my current brand and I'm happy with them.
REI - they have some width models available.

Here are some tips for finding well-fitting boots:

- wear the socks/sock combination that you will most often use when trying on boots. This will help you find boots with proper internal volume
- try on boots at the end of the day or after walking for a bit. Feet swell after activity, which necessitates a slightly greater internal volume.
- if a boot feels wrong when trying it on, no amount of breaking in will make the boot right.
- no boot will accommodate 100% of your outdoor footwear needs. Find a pair that will work for 75% of your intended activities. As needed, add niche-use boots to your assortment.
- fit is paramount. A company can make high-quality boots that simply do not fit you properly.
- if you are new to boots, you may prefer to spend a bit less and get a decent "intro" pair. That is what I did. Instead of buying a $200 pair, I held off and found a discounted $100 pair that had been marked down to $40. It had the major features I needed (good ankle support, good traction, durable construction, decently water proof), fit well, and was a low-risk means of finding what exactly I need in my most-used outdoor boots.

Good luck, look around, and keep coming back for info. You've embarked on something fun :) :thumbup:
 
Online retailers that you can trust:

Campmor.com
Sierratradingpost.com
Cabelas.com

There are more, but these come readily to mind.
 
I haven't seen any mention on this thread of vapor barrier liners. They're something you might want to consider. The idea behind vbl is that you have a very light wicking layer next to skin (a coolmax or microweight wool for instance), followed by a nonbreathable layer. This keeps you toasty by stopping virtually all evaporative heat loss. It's used pretty extensively by mountaineers, though it tends to be most effective for temperatures under 40F. A product to check out would be RBH Designs Vapor Barrier Hand and Footwear, which has been reviewed favorably on other sites.

Another note on clothing, generally you'll want to way your options according to the conditions you might be encountering.

Down: highest insulation to weight ratio of anything on the market, but loses loft and therefore most warmth when wet.

Wool: Heavier than down or fleece but has a wider comfort range for most people. Fibers absorb water when wet resulting in less chilling effect- feel warmer when wet.

Synthetics (polarguard 3d, primaloft): Good insulative value, good warmth to weight ratio, lose a good part of their insulating ability when wet but do not absorb much water- dry quicker.
 
Hey Guys...

Two words for you..

Artic Shield !

There simply aren't warmer gloves available than Artic Shield Gloves..
I would get the sytem glove...

Shopping at Cabelas last year,, I came across the Artic shield booth doing a demo of their products.. I've heard of them, handled them, however I've never experienced them before..

After 15 minutes of the demo,, I want to buy stock in the company...

I put on the Artic Shield glove which were Very thin compared to the thick cold weather gloves I 'm use to and was handed a block of dry ice and stood there for nearly 15 minutes holding this dry ice..
Keep in mind these gloves are thinner than insulated work gloves..

After 15 minutes he switched me to the boot covers and asked how my hand felt...

Never in that 15 minutes did my hand get uncomfortable,, and in fact, felt I could stand there until the block of dry ice evaporated.My hand went back to normal temp, after only a few minutes.

Honestly,, and I'm not joking,, it was like holding a cold can of pop..
Pretty dramatic and I was Highly Impressed...

The Boot covers were the same and protected my hand extremely well from the dry ice..

The trick to thse gloves is you have to have them on Before your hands get cold...If they are cold to begin with the gloves don't work as well and the hand must be warmed before you put them on...

Without a doubt I Highly suggest getting Any Artic Shield product,, and for next year I will be ordering the entire suit..

Go check them out...

ttyle

Eric
O/ST
 
I’m a fan of wool EVERYTHING. Nothing regulates body temperature the same. Every time I wear synthetics I get too hot or too cold, and feel as though my skin cant breathe. A good wool layering system keeps me COMFORTABLE, not just warm, at a wide range of temps. Here in Minnesota, weather can change a lot in a short time.

Yes, I’m even talking wool long underwear; there are a lot of companies doing it right now days. For boots I like good packs with wool felt (NOT thinsulate) liners, thick wool socks over wool or silk liner socks. I think the Stieger Mukluks are overpriced and if the snow melts mid day, you’re in trouble. avoid gore tex footwear AT ALL COSTS for cold weather, once the cold gets in there your feet aren't getting warm again. I remember one time when my feet got cold in a pair of thinsulate and gore tex boots, I mean cold, I got in the car finnally and got the heat blasting in the foot area, my feet were still FREEZING even in a HOT car! If your concerned about wool itch or don’t want to pay the admittedly high prices for good wool long underwear, go with silk instead of synthetics, your skin will thank you (and the people sitting next to you as you wont stink)

To be specific, my ideal layering for very cold (-20 F excluding windchill) would be the following, easily modified with lighter weight layers and finnally less layers as climate dictates, thats the great thing about layering:

Base: wool long underwear,

Mid: mid weight, low bulk, terry type wool (like Ullfrotte or Icebreaker), wool shirt, vest (great for core warmth without making your sleeves too bulky), wool sweater or combo.

Outer: heavy wool bibs and jacket from someone like Filson (I like bibs for extreme cold because they let the warmth from your legs travel up to your torso and also insulate your kidneys)

Outer (packed): if it’s wet or windy, a good packable gore tex parka and pants are nice

Foot: silk or lightweight wool liners with expedition weight socks (100% wool, not a blend) and good wool felt pac boots. If its milder i go for heavy wool socks with liners and good leather boots that are somewhat loose fitting to let the air circulate (VERRY important with footwear in the cold) maby with a wool felt insole.

Hands: thick removable wool liners and leather gloves, also thick wool chopper liners and large leather choppers (can also put wool glove liners and chopper liners together for extreme cold) or the King of the Mountain system is nice because it’s a gauntlet and covers your wrist.

Head: wool balaclava, wool stocking cap or woven wool cap with ear flaps (like a Filson or King Of the Mountain), wool neck gator or scarf. I don’t like hoods because they reduce peripheral vision and also hearing.

Here are some online products and companies I like. I admit I lean more towards the expensive and high quality, it all depends on how much you can spend:

Filson, a great name in wool outerwear:
http://www.filson.com/home/index.jsp

King Of the Mountain, great if you can afford it:
http://www.kingofthemountainonline.com/wool.htm

Cabelas, search wool and also there gore tex stuff is nice (and they carry tall, hurray!)
http://www.cabelas.com/home.jsp;jsessionid=K11FDMI4BUH1OCWQNWRSCNYK0BW0IIWE?_requestid=143029

Ullfrotte, wool under and mid layer (partly synthetic, yuck) many swear by it.
http://www.shopatron.com/index/235.0

Icebreaker, wool everything! Great quality, even t-shirts and underwear, good socks and balaclavas too. Sucky thing is they don’t carry my size! (curse being tall and skinny!)
http://www.icebreaker.com/site/home.html?id=htmUJrHf:71.195.6.124

Drew’s boots, now THAT’S a pac boot! (its getting hard to find 100% wool felt pac liners, I have some old ones, even here there thinsulate blend, anyone have a source?)
http://drewsboots.com/pac.htm

Here are some cloths I like form the above stores in order of layer / etc.

Jackets:
http://www.filson.com/product/index...&cp=2069836.2069837.2075070&parentPage=family

http://www.kingofthemountainonline.com/ec/additem.asp?pid=shja04

http://www.cabelas.com/cabelas/en/t...?id=0034308960128a&type=product&cm_sz=Regular

bibs and pants (outer)
http://www.filson.com/product/index...&cp=2069836.2069840.2075076&parentPage=family

http://www.filson.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2092295&cp=2069840.2075071

http://www.filson.com/product/index...&cp=2069836.2069840.2075076&parentPage=family

http://www.kingofthemountainonline.com/ec/additem.asp?pid=pabi01

http://www.kingofthemountainonline.com/ec/additem.asp?pid=pabi02

http://www.kingofthemountainonline.com/ec/additem.asp?pid=pabi03

http://www.cabelas.com/cabelas/en/t...=mode+matchall&Nty=1&Ntt=wool+pants&noImage=0

http://www.cabelas.com/cabelas/en/t...?id=0034308960131a&type=product&cm_sz=Regular

http://www.cabelas.com/cabelas/en/t...=mode+matchall&Nty=1&Ntt=wool+pants&noImage=0

shirts and midlayer (torso)
http://www.filson.com/product/index...&cp=2069836.2069838.2075078&parentPage=family

http://www.filson.com/product/index...&cp=2069836.2069839.2075074&parentPage=family

http://www.filson.com/product/index...2&doVSearch=no&pageBucket=0&parentPage=family

http://www.kingofthemountainonline.com/ec/additem.asp?pid=shja02

http://www.cabelas.com/cabelas/en/t...de+matchall&Nty=1&Ntt=Woodsman+Wool&noImage=0

http://www.cabelas.com/cabelas/en/t...tx=mode+matchall&Nty=1&Ntt=whipcord&noImage=0

http://www.cabelas.com/cabelas/en/t...?id=0022572942019a&type=product&cm_sz=Regular

http://www.shopatron.com/product/product_id=GFB6234/235.0.19539.19543.0.0.0

http://www.shopatron.com/product/product_id=GFB6236/235.0.19539.19543.0.0.0

http://www.icebreaker.com/site/catalog/range.html?gender=Man&layer=Mid&range=Sport320

http://www.actiongear.com/cgi-bin/t...y%20pully&backto=%2Fagcatalog%2Fresults%2Etam

midlayer (legs, to wear over silk in extreme cold)
http://www.shopatron.com/product/product_id=GFB6344/235.0.19539.19543.0.0.0

base layer:
http://www.icebreaker.com/site/catalog/range.html?gender=Man&layer=Skin&range=Skin200

http://www.shopatron.com/product/product_id=GFB6342/235.0.19539.19543.0.0.0

http://www.shopatron.com/product/product_id=GFB6122/235.0.19539.19543.0.0.0

http://www.campmor.com/webapp/wcs/s...=200305066&langId=-1&parent_category_rn=61294

http://justincharles.com/store/adventure-outfitters/merino-wool-long-underwear/

head, hands and feet (only a few, you can find a lot of this stuff locally, especially socks)
http://www.icebreaker.com/cgi-bin/icebreaker/catalog/search.html?gender=Man&flag=hats_gloves_scarves

http://www.kingofthemountainonline.com/ec/additem.asp?pid=hats01

http://www.kingofthemountainonline.com/ec/additem.asp?pid=glmi04

http://www.kingofthemountainonline.com/ec/additem.asp?pid=glmi01

http://www.filson.com/product/index...&cp=2069836.2064999.2118244&parentPage=family

http://www.filson.com/family/index.jsp?categoryId=2075119&cp=2069836.2065000

the only light weight boot I know of lined with wool:
http://www.filson.com/product/index...&cp=2069836.2065000.2075093&parentPage=family

my favorite gore tex outerwear
http://www.cabelas.com/cabelas/en/t...matchall&Nty=1&Ntt=mt050+quiet+pack&noImage=0

http://www.cabelas.com/cabelas/en/t...rid=&parentType=&indexId=cat470082&hasJS=true
 
"I’m a fan of wool EVERYTHING."-ninjajoe

I swear, I've run into a fair number of folks like yourself on other forums. You all must've been sheep in a former life. I'm a fan of wool, absolutely. But how much does that -20 getup you're wearing weigh? It certainly sounds warm and you can probably abuse the hell out of those clothes without much wear, but the nice thing about down or a synthetic puffy jacket is you get a lot of bang for not that much weight. Course, I'm coming from a backpacking/trailwork background. Weight's always an issue with me.

I do second the icebreaker endorsement. Nice stuff. Real nice.
 
I swear, I've run into a fair number of folks like yourself on other forums. You all must've been sheep in a former life. I'm a fan of wool, absolutely. But how much does that -20 getup you're wearing weigh? It certainly sounds warm and you can probably abuse the hell out of those clothes without much wear, but the nice thing about down or a synthetic puffy jacket is you get a lot of bang for not that much weight. Course, I'm coming from a backpacking/trailwork background. Weight's always an issue with me.
Click to expand...

keep in mind that this -20 setup is pretty extreme and would be quickly shed when moving, its mostly that heafty for sitting around, but you still have to carry it I guess. If you were moving alot I'd say you could be comfortable at -35 or even -40 if theres not much wind. Yes the filson stuffs pretty durable, the KOTM (king of the mountan) is more so. yes the getup weighs somehting, but I think its worth it. if I get dunked (theres alot of water around here, lots of ice walking, a real good chance of that) id stake my life on wool keeping me warm when wet. I know some synthetics claim to do the same, but in my experience thats not the case, wool is unsurpassed in my experience for this ability, although I've never been dunked in synthetics. i belive that down dosent stay warm when wet? i may be wrong. when I sweat in synthetics, when I'm moving alot and stopping alot, they get clammy and dont regulate my body temprature like wool does, as in there not nearly as versitile.

It is a difference in the type of outdoors your in, in a mountan type, super dry climate or arctic type dry cold, I might go with something lighter weight with more insulation per pound. I am mostly from a canoing in the spring / summer / fall and skiing or snowshoing in the same places in winter background, I guess survival when wet is the thing that most influences my clothing decisions. also when canoe tripping weight is not so much of an issue, but my dunk cloths (a full set of warm cloths in case you get dunked) are lightweight fleece, couse an extra set of wool would be rediculous.

Of course you can also consider that we are just spoiled with all our lightweight gear, back in the day up here the Voiagers would carry a 100LB duluth pack (tump strapped to there forhead!) and a 100+LB canvis canoe through rough terrain without complaining. when I was a kid and we were poor, we tripped the boundry waters with a double walled PLASTIC (no, not fiberglass or Kevlar, injection molded plastic) canoe, an aluminum frame canvis tent, and cotton filled sleeping bags. I'm a big guy and can handle some extra weight in my cloths if it means they will serve me in all conditions. also considering being stranded / in a survival type situation, I wouldent want anything else. But mostly I like wool becouse whats comfortable at 20*F is also comfortable at 50*F. The other thing you have to consider is that the versitility in tempratures of wool means that you dont need as many different articles of clothing to cover a range of tempratures, meaning less weight and bulk.
 
Hey Guys...

The Ultimate test for me is in the tree stand..If it keeps me warm up there after 6 hours,, it's a Keeper...

First thing to go are hands and feet...

The Retain system in Artic Shield has me Sold...

ttyle

Eric
O/ST
 
Wool is great stuff. I like and use lots of wool. I am especialy fond of surplus wool pants from German and Swedish militaries (some of which they sold off brand-new).

Everyone is entitled to their opinions.

Every Antarctic program I can find, including U.S., UK, and NZ (and they have some experience with wool in NZ :D ), make very limited use of wool (glove liners, for example) and rely primarily on polyester fleece and batting for insulation and nylon for wind-resistant barriers -- and this has been true for a period of years -- not a recent fad.

Not all polyester fleece is created equal. Polarguard sets the standard, but is available in modestly-priced garments (< $30.00)(Try Campmor.).

As a matter of science, polyester has far greater abrasion resistance and tensile strength than wool. Thus we have polyester ropes rather than wool ropes.

Not every fiber beginning with "poly" is the same. Polypropylene became infamous for storing up "stink." Polyester, on the other hand, is machine-washable and has no such problem, hence it's huge success as material for baby garments. In fact, it stores up less stink than cotton. If your polyester fleece jacket stinks, you need to wash it.

Wool does have the unique property, within limits, of generating significant heat as a reaction to becoming damp -- absorption of up to 30% of its weight in water generating a decreasing amount of heat.
 
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