Warning from China

[killgar]

Most of the day to day items you are talking about are nameless products, tools, commodity items. There is a direct relationship with the knifemakers and other artists in a given hobby to their customers. Your argument looks good on the outside but is pretty hollow and doesn't have much standing behind it. Your argument is something like, "why buy a Samsung TV, they didnt invent so you are a hypocrite for not buying fromwhoever invented the TV" or "why do you have an IBM clone, shame on you it's like having a fake Sebenza" etc etc. Dude, if you can't tell the difference, go get a clue somewhere. You are comparing the pharmaceutical industry to knifemakers? Dude, take what you got and go move on, trust me.

While I'm sure you would like to have the last word and let your post stand as the final say, no such luck. I've got time.

Agin you are wrong. I don't care what other people buy, and I've stated this often on this forum. I don't care if people buy expensive originals or cheap copies. What I don't like is when people on this forum make moral judgements of others and question their character because they simply choose to buy a copy of a knife. And I will always say so.

 

[FCM415]

Wait...Who exactly passed moral judgements on others? I know I didn't. The issue that people are having is with the counterfeits themselves and the ones who do the counterfeiting. Not the guy on the fence on wether or not he should buy a fake knife. It is reasonable for us to offer him the idea that supporting these thieves by buying their contraband is not ok. People who buy these support the act which encourages more counterfeiting of intellectual property, things that are innovated by knifemakers.. If people do so, that is their decision. Folks are here vocalizing how they feel about counterfeits, not necessarily to judge others. You're making it sound like guys are sitting waiting for an "aha!" moment to call someone out for being immoral LOL. I personally speak out that I disagree with it for obvious reasons or even urge others to see how it can be damaging to the knife community. I don't care who gets the last word, what I have stated is right above yours.

 

[RevDevil]

Sorry to rerail this thread, but I do not and will not buy knives made in China. I'd rather save and buy US made or at the very least from companies that have a close eye and lots of oversight on off shore manufacturing. Spyderco knives from Taiwan are as close s I am willing to get. 95% of my knives are USA made. It's one of the last bastions of American labor I am happy to support.

 

[FCM415]

Like I said, what we say here changes little. Counterfeiters will make their money. For sure, it is up for people to decide what they do. Some have strong feelings towards counterfeits and wish to voice their opinions, that is all. The morality part comes in once in awhile when this subject is up, but you were parading it around like anyone was really questioning the a forum member/consumer's morality. It is the counterfeiters morality which is its most often about, so your little pharmaceutical talk brought nothing but giggles. Whether someone deters anyone from buying fakes isn't even the point. It is in that standing behind the people who make the knife hobby enjoyable like Chris Reeve, and Ben Dale over the nameless who do not stand behind their products. I can agree with you that people shouldn't pass moral judgements on other members but guess what, that is very few and far in between. Posting a dedicated thread (that was promtply shut down) and escalating this one wasn't really necessary.

 

[FCM415]

Sorry to rerail this thread, but I do not and will not buy knives made in China. I'd rather save and buy US made or at the very least from companies that have a close eye and lots of oversight on off shore manufacturing. Spyderco knives from Taiwan are as close s I am willing to get. 95% of my knives are USA made. It's one of the last bastions of American labor I am happy to support.

Personally, I don't care where anything is made from including knives. A lot of my household stuff is made abroad including China. Of course I am happy when I see something I like/need is made in the U.S. and most of my knives are made here. It is counterfeit items that most people have issues with.

 

[Ernie1980]

I make every effort to buy us made knives, I currently only own non-us made knives from European custom makers.

 

[godot]

What would you say would be a fair price for a hand made Damascus knife with a beautiful bone handle and elaborate file work and a custom leather sheath? If I were to post a picture of one of these knives in the custom section a lot of people (including me) would say WOW!!!
The average price of these knives, is drum roll $46. This maker seems to be able to produce them in record time. By my estimation is a short career he has made more knives than any other knife maker in history. I don't want to post a link, but if the moderator requests I'll pmail him the link to verify what I'm saying. I know they are not the real deal, but they photo well. Fortunately I'm able to exercise some restraint.

 

[unklfranco]

What I don't understand is why the US and the rest of the world can't come together and pressure China into obeying copyright laws.

China is one of the largest, if not the largest trading partner the US has. All the government has to do is threaten to increase tax on products made in China and I'm sure they'll play ball.

Excellent question Cassull. According to the U. S. Treasury Department, "The largest foreign holder of U.S. debt is China, which owns about $1.2 trillion in bills, notes and bonds. Basically, I think our government is afraid to act. The following rant is not directed to you but is slightly related to my answer to your question. It is a statement of how I feel about our economy and why I think it is going to get much worse. The link is where I got the figures of the debt.

http://usgovinfo.about.com/od/moneymatters/ss/How-Much-US-Debt-Does-China-Own.htm

*unrelated rant warning* This suggests to me that the U.S. depends on foreign countries lending us money (welfare) and selling us cheap goods so we can keep on supporting lazy bums that refuse to sit in their damn seat do their effing homework. We then let them graduate, knowing they can't read and expect them to get jobs and pull us out of this depression. Were doomed. *rant over*

 

[killgar]

Wait...Who exactly passed moral judgements on others? I know I didn't. The issue that people are having is with the counterfeits themselves and the ones who do the counterfeiting. Not the guy on the fence on wether or not he should buy a fake knife. It is reasonable for us to offer him the idea that supporting these thieves by buying their contraband is not ok. People who buy these support the act which encourages more counterfeiting of intellectual property, things that are innovated by knifemakers.. If people do so, that is their decision. Folks are here vocalizing how they feel about counterfeits, not necessarily to judge others. You're making it sound like guys are sitting waiting for an "aha!" moment to call someone out for being immoral LOL. I personally speak out that I disagree with it for obvious reasons or even urge others to see how it can be damaging to the knife community. I don't care who gets the last word, what I have stated is right above yours.

I never said that YOU passed any moral judgements, but sadly it does happen on this forum from time to time when this subject comes up. And this subject comes up on a frequent basis here. I feel strongly about it and chose to comment about it in this relevant thread. Obviously there are a variety of topics being discussed in this thread, this issue of mine is just one of them.

Honestly, I don't know where we are in disagreement. In posts #27 and 30 I clearly expressed my opinion that "counterfeit" knives were bad, that those who produce and sell them should be prosecuted and imprisoned, and that Customs should make more of an effort to intercept them. So it can clearly be construed that I have very strong feelings against counterfeit knives. I also feel strongly about people passing moral judgment of others on this forum. I think there's plenty of room here for all opinions.

 

[Shing]

What I don't understand is why the US and the rest of the world can't come together and pressure China into obeying copyright laws.

China is one of the largest, if not the largest trading partner the US has. All the government has to do is threaten to increase tax on products made in China and I'm sure they'll play ball.

Increasing import taxes will simply start a trade war. Increasing taxes on Chinese imports and China will increase taxes on US imports like grain and beef. American farmers suffer and America's competitors benefit. No one apart from politicians gain.

 

[frontline29]

Regardless of how you justify it to yourself, buying fakes and counterfeits is wrong and is detrimental to our hobby.