Warranty Question

[Josh K]

You’re kidding, right? You do know that PVC is just hard plastic—not that thick, and not even that hard? I was quite surprised when the blade snapped.

The Native is one of Spyderco’s stronger point designs. Can you imagine how much more easily you could pop the tip off a blade design like the Military? How do you think you’d feel if you actually gave a Military model to a soldier being deployed to the sand box and he broke it on some mundane task, only to find it couldn’t be repaired? And then imagine how you’d feel if you’d laid out the $200+ for a carbon fiber S90V model?

I didn’t say I expected Spyderco to fix the Native for free, and I did say I think I pushed the knife too far—although what I was doing I would not consider abuse. But I do think I unwittingly pried a little too hard. What surprised me was that apparently the knife couldn’t be repaired at all. I would have been perfectly satisfied if Spyderco said they could disassemble the knife, put in a new blade, charge me a fair price including a profit for them, and return it.

After all, Spyderco’s are put together with torx screws. The Bucks that have been sent back to me with new blades--for free, no questions asked--were 110 models with pins and solid bolsters, but obviously they could be taken apart, repaired, and re-assembled.

Speaking of military use, my wife’s uncle received the Silver Star posthumously in WWII for valor under fire. During an enemy advance against his squad’s position, he left his foxhole to carry extra ammunition to the troops in his command, who were running out. He was killed while exposed, running from foxhole to foxhole distributing ammo. Among his effects was an old Camillus slip joint which apparently had been run over by a vehicle at some point. It was mashed up, the scales were broken, but the blades were intact—just twisted. I sent it to a knifemaker who makes slipjoints, and he was able to restore the knife to like new, with perfect action. He replaced the slabs with some nice dyed bone, and I gave it to my stepson as a Christmas present when he turned 21, accompanied by the citation. It’s amazing to me that an old slip joint with major damage like that could be made like new, while a modern knife like a Spyderco cannot be repaired in like fashion.

So I think my reaction to this experience with the Native is normal and understandable, and I think it’s a real head-shaker that an expensive knife with a long, thin blade like the Military would be touted for military use, when the knife cannot be restored after the most routine damage imaginable for a folder used by a soldier at war.

Buck stamps their blade out, which makes them relatively cheap.

What does military use have to do with it? The knife was trashed and you had it restored by a knife maker, not the original company.

I'm sure if you wanted you could find someone to grind you a new blade.

 

[Will York]

Buck stamps their blade out, which makes them relatively cheap.

What does military use have to do with it? The knife was trashed and you had it restored by a knife maker, not the original company.

I'm sure if you wanted you could find someone to grind you a new blade.

None of your points speaks to any of my issues, Josh.

The fact that Buck's blades are cheaper has nothing to do with it--I said I'd gladly pay for a new blade at a price that would provide Spyderco a profit. Military use? You think prying a little piece of PVC is rougher use than what an soldier in Afghanistan would expect to do with a knife that has an even thinner, narrower blade than the one I broke? You honestly don't see the connection? The example of the old knife that was mashed and repaired by a knifemaker was just to show that even an individual could repair that knife--it didn't even require factory tooling or expertise.

And why would I want to pay someone a custom price to "re-create" a production blade, when replacing the blade itself is not even the problem. Spyderco obviously has plenty of Native blades. They say they are unable to disassemble and reassemble the knife with a new blade.

If you have anything to say in response to my actual issues with the knife, please feel free.

 

[Josh K]

None of your points speaks to any of my issues, Josh.

The fact that Buck's blades are cheaper has nothing to do with it--I said I'd gladly pay for a new blade at a price that would provide Spyderco a profit. Military use? You think prying a little piece of PVC is rougher use than what an soldier in Afghanistan would expect to do with a knife that has an even thinner, narrower blade than the one I broke? You honestly don't see the connection? The example of the old knife that was mashed and repaired by a knifemaker was just to show that even an individual could repair that knife--it didn't even require factory tooling or expertise.

And why would I want to pay someone a custom price to "re-create" a production blade, when replacing the blade itself is not even the problem. Spyderco obviously has plenty of Native blades. They say they are unable to disassemble and reassemble the knife with a new blade.

If you have anything to say in response to my actual issues with the knife, please feel free.

I'm saying you have admitted that you abused the knife and it broke, and the Spyderco's policy is to not replace blades. Rather then take your lumps and next time use something significantly cheaper to pry with, you're whining about it.

The Native 4 is made in Seki Japan. I understand that they won't ship only blades and instead insist that the knives be assembled there. This would mean Spyderco would have to ship your knife to Japan ($20) have them fit a new blade (Sal has been quoted saying skilled machinists are around $50 / hr) and ship it back ($20).

 

[Will York]

In the first place, I've already taken my "lumps", obviously--I'm out the price of the knife. And I didn't start a thread to whine. I was introducing recent first-hand experience with customer service at Spyderco to a topic which some of the forum members obviously had the same mis-conceptions about that I did, before my experience. I simply thought it might be valuable information.

Your comment about shipping charges is just one more irrelevant point. For the third time, it wasn't cost that was at issue--either repair cost, blade cost or shipping cost. The issue is whether the knife is repairable or not, and Spyderco says it is not.

 

[Josh K]

In the first place, I've already taken my "lumps", obviously--I'm out the price of the knife. And I didn't start a thread to whine. I was introducing recent first-hand experience with customer service at Spyderco to a topic which some of the forum members obviously had the same mis-conceptions about that I did, before my experience. I simply thought it might be valuable information.

Your comment about shipping charges is just one more irrelevant point. For the third time, it wasn't cost that was at issue--either repair cost, blade cost or shipping cost. The issue is whether the knife is repairable or not, and Spyderco says it is not.

The repair charge would be about the same as a brand new knife.

 

[Will York]

The repair charge would be about the same as a brand new knife.

Sorry, I didn't realize you were privy to Spyderco's cost break-outs.

 

[Josh K]

Sorry, I didn't realize you were privy to Spyderco's cost break-outs.

I'm assuming, which you know.

 

[FlaMtnBkr]

My son's was a good 10 years old or more and the charge was $5 when we sent it in last year. Perhaps pricing has changed. The work was extremely well done and the knife was both fully serviceable and cosmetically attractive afterwards, so I'd give Spyderco a big :thumbup::thumbup::thumbup: on that repair.

I think the Spyderco website says that non warranty work has a $20 minimum fee. I guess whoever worked on your knife just decided to charge you return shipping and considered it warranty work.

 

[Will York]

You assume quite a bit, Josh, most of which has nothing to do with this.

Below is Charlynn’s last email to me on the repair request I submitted. She’s in the customer service department at Spyderco.

Obviously, there were several reasons why she says they can’t help me, aside from the warranty issue which I never disputed. I never said I thought the warranty should cover the knife. I just wanted to have the knife repaired at my expense.

So the points she makes that address my request are that 1) the knife was discontinued; 2) they don’t stock extra blades for their Japanese knives because if there is a warranty issue they replace the knife, and if it’s not a warranty issue they apparently have no other way to deal with it; and finally 3) “It is not possible to disassemble a stainless steel knife without destroying the rivets.”

I do not understand why rivets can’t be replaced in the re-assembly of the knife, but from Charlynn’s comment apparently that is the case—her explanation, not mine.

So obviously, if this is not a warranty issue, and I don’t want them to try to re-grind my broken blade, then to me Charlynn’s explanation means they have nothing further to offer me. Here is her email:

Will,

The knife you have was discontinued last year. If it's a warranty issue we replace the knife and if we no longer make the knife we issue an in house credit of the last MSRP. There are many reasons we do not replace the blades, some of the knives are made here in Golden but the knives that are made in Japan we do not stock extra blades for one because we replace the knife if it's a warranty issue and also we are constantly trying to make a better product and the specs change so a knife that is made a year ago the current blade might not fit. It is not possible to disassemble a stainless steel knife without destroying the rivets. If you want to send it in that's fine if you chose not to I understand.


Charlynn

 

[Josh K]

You assume quite a bit, Josh, most of which has nothing to do with this.

Below is Charlynn’s last email to me on the repair request I submitted. She’s in the customer service department at Spyderco.

Obviously, there were several reasons why she says they can’t help me, aside from the warranty issue which I never disputed. I never said I thought the warranty should cover the knife. I just wanted to have the knife repaired at my expense.

So the points she makes that address my request are that 1) the knife was discontinued; 2) they don’t stock extra blades for their Japanese knives because if there is a warranty issue they replace the knife, and if it’s not a warranty issue they apparently have no other way to deal with it; and finally 3) “It is not possible to disassemble a stainless steel knife without destroying the rivets.”

I do not understand why rivets can’t be replaced in the re-assembly of the knife, but from Charlynn’s comment apparently that is the case—her explanation, not mine.

So obviously, if this is not a warranty issue, and I don’t want them to try to re-grind my broken blade, then to me Charlynn’s explanation means they have nothing further to offer me. Here is her email:

Will,

The knife you have was discontinued last year. If it's a warranty issue we replace the knife and if we no longer make the knife we issue an in house credit of the last MSRP. There are many reasons we do not replace the blades, some of the knives are made here in Golden but the knives that are made in Japan we do not stock extra blades for one because we replace the knife if it's a warranty issue and also we are constantly trying to make a better product and the specs change so a knife that is made a year ago the current blade might not fit. It is not possible to disassemble a stainless steel knife without destroying the rivets. If you want to send it in that's fine if you chose not to I understand.


Charlynn

Isn't the Native 4 put together with TORX screws?

 

[Will York]

Isn't the Native 4 put together with TORX screws?

Good question, Josh.

 

[brownshoe]

The Customer Service statement is some good dancing, however, Spyderco doesn't replace blades because they do not have a corporate policy to support repairs by stocking parts. Not just parts for blades, but other parts as well. If you are lucky and they still make your knife in the US, they will have parts from the current production line. If you need something simple like a screw, a clip, a washer, need some grinding or adjustment, that Spyderco can do.

 

[The Mastiff]

Will, here is a past comment from Sal about repairing knives. It might give you an indication of why they usually replace rather than repair warranty issues.

Having a knife maker re make a knife is a pretty costly proposition. Comparing an EDC that was broken by misuse ( prying) to a knife carried in a war that was restored as a gift, or service to a family are apples and oranges IMO.

The cost to repair knives like this exceed the cost of making the knife in the first place by triple. Most customers object to that kind of repair cost. Stripped screws, parts left out, damage done because they weren't assembled properly, is a real PITA to deal with. Shop time for a skilled maker is more than $50/hr. We lose money of every knife we repair. The cost charged is just a nominal service charge.

The above is Sal G.. The thread it's in is about 5 pages in.

 

[MVF]

In the first place, I've already taken my "lumps", obviously--I'm out the price of the knife. And I didn't start a thread to whine. I was introducing recent first-hand experience with customer service at Spyderco to a topic which some of the forum members obviously had the same mis-conceptions about that I did, before my experience. I simply thought it might be valuable information.

Your comment about shipping charges is just one more irrelevant point. For the third time, it wasn't cost that was at issue--either repair cost, blade cost or shipping cost. The issue is whether the knife is repairable or not, and Spyderco says it is not.

I, for one, am very happy to learn this here and now rather than by hard experience. Thank you for posting, as this will definitely affect how I use my Spyderco knives, which ones I will use, and ,obviously, which ones I will buy.

 

[JNewell]

I recently broke the tip off a Native myself, VG10/carbon fiber, and was very disappointed to learn that Spyderco will not replace the blade at any price. I realize I pushed the blade a little too far, but it was just the kind of thing anyone might do. I was trying to cut/pry a PVC cap off a 3/4" PVC pipe and broke off about 1/2" or so of blade--certainly not something that could be re-ground into any shape that works for me. So I'm out over $100 for the knife, which is now worthless, with no recourse. That surprised me. I've owned and enjoyed Spydies for years, but now I'm having to re-think whether they're worth it--especially the more expensive ones.

Your original post, quoted above, didn't indicate that they offered to replace the knife for no charge (see snip below with bold emphasis). That is a highly reasonable and commercially customary practice for an out of production knife.

The knife you have was discontinued last year. If it's a warranty issue we replace the knife and if we no longer make the knife we issue an in house credit of the last MSRP. There are many reasons we do not replace the blades, some of the knives are made here in Golden but the knives that are made in Japan we do not stock extra blades for one because we replace the knife if it's a warranty issue and also we are constantly trying to make a better product and the specs change so a knife that is made a year ago the current blade might not fit. It is not possible to disassemble a stainless steel knife without destroying the rivets. If you want to send it in that's fine if you chose not to I understand.

 

[Will York]

Having a knife maker re make a knife is a pretty costly proposition. Comparing an EDC that was broken by misuse ( prying) to a knife carried in a war that was restored as a gift, or service to a family are apples and oranges IMO.

I’m not really interested in that kind of explanation. I’ll take Sal at his word as to his cost, and I don’t know how those costs might be mitigated or built in to the original price of a Spyderco knife, which is not cheap to begin with. Adding a nominal amount onto the price of each knife sold, to be able to offer that kind of blade replacement/repair work, would seem to make sense to me, but I’m not a knife manufacturer--and none of those who have posted here are either, I might point out.

A Buck 110 can be bought for about $30. In a world where no production folder mfrs would repair a broken blade on a folder, Sal’s explanation might be of interest to me. But obviously other successful, long-time producers of folders have found a way to make it work for their customers and are able to replace blades on folders. That kind of explanation from a manufacturer, as much as I respect Sal for his product, is not a reason why I should buy his knives instead of someone who WILL replace a broken blade on their product.

I, for one, am very happy to learn this here and now rather than by hard experience. Thank you for posting, as this will definitely affect how I use my Spyderco knives, which ones I will use, and ,obviously, which ones I will buy.

You’re welcome. However, given the level of defense I've been called upon to mount for posting some simple facts and my honest reaction to them, I wouldn't recommend it.

Your original post, quoted above, didn't indicate that they offered to replace the knife for no charge (see snip below with bold emphasis). That is a highly reasonable and commercially customary practice for an out of production knife.

Jeez, guys. I realize some of you feel some kinship with this forum and a strong desire to protect a product you’ve come to identify with, but would you please at least read my posts above? Charlynn had already explained to me that the kind of breakage I described was not covered by the warranty. I was a little puzzled as to why she kept mentioning the warranty, also, but apparently that’s all the info she had to give me. The only way the break would have been covered by warranty, she explained earlier, would have been if the blade was defective. I never thought that was the case, although the break did confirm for me anecdotally that VG10 is not one of the tougher stainless steels. I guess that’s why Fallkniven started using it in a sandwich steel rather than continuing to make whole blades from it.

By the way, I'm done here. If someone has something new and relevant to add or ask, I'll respond, but this seems to be going nowhere. Spyderco doesn't replace blades. It's in their warranty. I get it.

 

[The Mastiff]

I’m not really interested in that kind of explanation. I’ll take Sal at his word as to his cost, and I don’t know how those costs might be mitigated or built in to the original price of a Spyderco knife, which is not cheap to begin with. Adding a nominal amount onto the price of each knife sold, to be able to offer that kind of blade replacement/repair work, would seem to make sense to me, but I’m not a knife manufacturer--and none of those who have posted here are either, I might point out.

And I admit to having no interest in paying more for Spydercos just to help out those people who break their blades prying with them.

 

[Josh K]

and i admit to having no interest in paying more for spydercos just to help out those people who break their blades prying with them.

+1. .

 

[Will York]

It's not that hard to break one. Once you do, you may find yourself in a better position to understand my perspective.

 

[The Mastiff]

In 40 years of using knives I've yet to break one by prying. The right tool for the job Will. You've heard it before. There are a few knives meant for prying, but as of now Spyderco isn't making them or selling them.