Was this self-defense?

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How long should he wait till it's reasonable, long enough for the masked man to pull a shotgun out of the bag, long enough to allow the masked man to gain the upper hand and take control. This all happened in seconds less than 10 seconds. The 2 seconds that passed from when the masked man bolted over the counter with his bag and to the first stab does not allow a man who already feels threatened by 2 masked (ski masks) men deliberately giving the impression they are armed robbers to decide what is the right or "wrong way" to go about it.

This is very consistent with a reaction when one is in fear for their life. If I felt like I may very soon wind up dead like other storekeepers I have heard about I may not give him the 1/2 second he needs to turn and face me let alone stand around until I am sure I am about to killed as opposed to being beaten or getting into a fight. This is not a game, those masked men successfully struck fear into this guy and unfortunately one of them reaped the results.

It's not the victims fault since he did not start these chain of events that lead up to this. Yes it very reasonable to expect these results when they decided to pull a stunt like this. It is their fault.

For all anyone could knows this guy could have pulled out a firearm taken him to the back before putting a bullet in his head. Is his friend running away or is he going to take his ski mask off outside and be a lookout. Shop keepers being murdered in similar circumstances has happened quite a few times. They were very successful at creating the atmosphere of life and death.

Why would anyone be surprised that this is a VERY possible outcome.

I going to give the victim more credibility and the benefit of the doubt.
 
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greater said:
How long should he wait till it's reasonable, long enough for the masked man to pull a shotgun out of the bag, long enough to allow the masked man to gain the upper hand and take control. This all happened in seconds less than 10 seconds. The 2 seconds that passed from when the masked man bolted over the counter with his bag and to the first stab does not allow a man who already feels threatened by 2 masked (ski masks) men deliberately giving the impression they are armed robbers to decide what is the right or "wrong way" to go about it.

This is very consistent with a reaction when one is in fear for their life. If I felt like I may very soon wind up dead like other storekeepers I have heard about I may not give him the 1/2 second he needs to turn and face me let alone stand around until I am sure I am about to killed as opposed to being beaten or getting into a fight. This is not a game, those masked men successfully struck fear into this guy and unfortunately one of them reaped the results.

It's not the victims fault since he did not start these chain of events that lead up to this. Yes it very reasonable to expect these results when they decided to pull a stunt like this. It is their fault.

For all anyone could knows this guy could have pulled out a firearm taken him to the back before putting a bullet in his head. Is his friend running away or is he going to take his ski mask off outside and be a lookout. Shop keepers being murdered in similar circumstances has happened quite a few times. They were very successful at creating the atmosphere of life and death.

Why would anyone be surprised that this is a VERY possible outcome.

I going to give the victim more credibility and the benefit of the doubt.
Click to expand...
I’m trying to absorb all this and keep up.
So, he was so overcome with fear, he walked into a room, containing two masked men.
Am I right so far?
 
GmpaJim said:
I’m trying to absorb all this and keep up.
So, he was so overcome with fear, he walked into a room, containing two masked men.
Am I right so far?
Click to expand...

That's not my take.

He walks fairly quickly from the back room to the register and the first thing he says is he'll be right with them. (I was going off the video's caption when I wrote this, just listened and I cant really make out what he said.)
When he gets to the register, he then asks why they're wearing masks.


Based on what I see and hear, he did not assess the situation (correctly) from the back room and it clicked either while on the way to the register or when he got to it.
 
benchwarmer380 said:
That's not my take.

He walks fairly quickly from the back room to the register and the first thing he says is he'll be right with them. (I was going off the video's caption when I wrote this, just listened and I cant really make out what he said.)
When he gets to the register, he then asks why they're wearing masks.


Based on what I see and hear, he did not assess the situation (correctly) from the back room and it clicked either while on the way to the register or when he got to it.
Click to expand...
Then it’s safe to say, pulling one’s head from there keester would have ended this before it ever started?
 
Sure ski mask with a big wide hole for the mouth and a bag that looks just the right size for a gun. I am sure they were just 2 gentlemen intent on pulling a harmless holloween prank and projecting the image of so.

I don't buy it for one second. The robbers initiated this chain of events. It's the product of their intimidation and instilling fear of bodily harm and/or death.? It couldn't be more obvious. What is it you don't understand? If it happened to me I'd be frightened.
 
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benchwarmer380 said:
No.

Are you implying that he lacked situational awareness?
Click to expand...

So that's a yes.


He picked up on it in 3 seconds or less. Sure, that's not perfect, but in my opinion, that is far from such an oblivious state I would say his head is up his keester. YMMV
 
This thread is interesting to see so many view the same thing, and come away with so many varied opinions on what happened and what should or should not have been done.
Self defense is not something you should leave to chance.
Im not an instructor, I’m a student.
If you’re a self taught type, read “Seal Survival Guide“ by Cade Courtly. He’ll answer questions you didn’t know existed.
For more in-depth stuff, Google, “Concealed Carry University.”
If you really want to get involved, find an NRA course. (classroom and practical)
My “opinions” come from proven combat instructors. Not an internet debate.
 
GmpaJim said:
This thread is interesting to see so many view the same thing, and come away with so many varied opinions on what happened and what should or should not have been done.
Self defense is not something you should leave to chance.
Im not an instructor, I’m a student.
If you’re a self taught type, read “Seal Survival Guide“ by Cade Courtly. He’ll answer questions you didn’t know existed.
For more in-depth stuff, Google, “Concealed Carry University.”
If you really want to get involved, find an NRA course. (classroom and practical)
My “opinions” come from proven combat instructors. Not an internet debate.
Click to expand...

You haven't said any opinions.
You just keep alluding to "how much you know" and how little we know

Well teach us......


(From what I know) he looks to have done almost everything Perfect. Textbook Prefect. Almost.

This case can be studied and used for class.


My Only gripe was that he Should of been armed/Always.
Not having to corner himself at the register.
He went to the register to retrieve his knife.
Everything else, Perfect. (FOR HIS SAFETY) not the other guys.
 
GmpaJim said:
This thread is interesting to see so many view the same thing, and come away with so many varied opinions on what happened and what should or should not have been done.
Self defense is not something you should leave to chance.
Im not an instructor, I’m a student.
If you’re a self taught type, read “Seal Survival Guide“ by Cade Courtly. He’ll answer questions you didn’t know existed.
For more in-depth stuff, Google, “Concealed Carry University.”
If you really want to get involved, find an NRA course. (classroom and practical)
My “opinions” come from proven combat instructors. Not an internet debate.
Click to expand...


In your opinion, am I way off base above?
 
benchwarmer380 said:
In your opinion, am I way off base above?
Click to expand...
Knowing what’s around you, is a good thing.

Crag the Brewer said:
You haven't said any opinions.
You just keep alluding to "how much you know" and how little we know

Well teach us......


(From what I know) he looks to have done almost everything Perfect. Textbook Prefect. Almost.

This case can be studied and used for class.


My Only gripe was that he Should of been armed/Always.
Not having to corner himself at the register.
He went to the register to retrieve his knife.
Everything else, Perfect. (FOR HIS SAFETY) not the other guys.
Click to expand...
I’m just an invisible guy on the internet. I would be parroting experts.
Please buy, the book. D DocJD read it, and it gave him the courage to charge an overwhelming force.
 
GmpaJim said:
I’m just an invisible guy on the internet. I would be parroting experts.
Please buy, the book. D DocJD read it, and it gave him the courage to charge an overwhelming force.
Click to expand...


I am conversing with you, not, at least to my knowledge, the author of a book.

Why share your opinion and then when it is challenged, tell people to just read a book?
 
GmpaJim said:
Knowing what’s around you, is a good thing.


I’m just an invisible guy on the internet. I would be parroting experts.
Please buy, the book. D DocJD read it, and it gave him the courage to charge an overwhelming force.
Click to expand...

I agree with you. Knowing what is around you is a Good thing.


What I am thinking is though.....
This store owner had considerable understanding of the situation.
I'm basically saying the opposite of You.

You think he had his head up his butt. Was unaware of his "surroundings"

I think he has seen this a bunch of times.
It was probably just Tuesday for him.
He, in his line of work can read people Way better than you, me, and most of us on the internet. He sees dirtballs every day. Subtle body language. Ques as to what is about to happen. Telltale signs

He looked very calm to me, like he had Lots of "training".
What he actually had was experience.


You just aren't trained enough to see All that.
He held his composure.


Someone who is in ugly situations alot, someone who has seen alot. Reacts differently. Guys in masks (especially recently) isn't all that unique to him.
He probably gets masked bums bugging him regularly .



He didn't react until he was attacked, by having that guy jump the counter invading him, and he stopped his defense once the threat stopped.
He Even aided with treatment afterwards.

We Need More people like him!
 
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