Water quenching steel, could it be done?

Sam Salvati

Sam Salvati

Joined
Aug 6, 2007
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If you were say OH, independantly wealthy, and could order a custom smelt from a foundry of a steel of makeup and alloy you want, what would you put in with Iron and Carbon, to make a definate water/brine hardening steel? Would it be better as just iron and carbon? Or is steel NOT REALLY able to be quenched properly in water/brine, and though it WAS done really shouldn't be now we know better. Could a water quenching steel be made? I understand how poor a quenchant water/brine really is, but is that due to the alloys and stuff in the steel nowadays, or does water just plain not work good?
 
If you want a water quernch steel that is as simple as possible-
1.00 carbon 99.00 iron
Stacy
 
Water works well brine works even better. Just be prepared for a few pings. Don Fogg uses rainwater and gets killer results in 1095.
 
A C Richards said:
Water works well brine works even better. Just be prepared for a few pings. Don Fogg uses rainwater and gets killer results in 1095.
Click to expand...

THAT's the thing right there, there are water quenchign steels already, but you try and quench one in brine or water and the ping problem is there! Are they really made to harden in water in knife form? I don't think so. Weren't the hardening properties based on 1 inch square samples, not knife cross sections?
 
Chuck, Don Fogg uses oil, Tough Quench and yes, he gets a killer hamon.

Sam, yes, W series steels were made to be quench in water but only in large cross sections, not thin knife blades.

If I were to get a custom melt, it would be along the lines of 1086M and W2, with maybe a little less manganese.
 
Water isn't a bad quenchant, in fact it's an extremely good one, which is eactly the reason it's not so good for blades... it's too fast and too harsh, hence the ping. Knives are at one extreme of hardening steel, which is usually the opposite that people are being concerned with when they're designing an alloy. People are usually worried about getting something hard all the way through when it's a large cross section, and don't care about the small ones (aka knives)

I've seen a steel like 1095 water quenched with an interrupted and get a gorgeous hammon without any clay coat. I'm not sure there's a 'perfect steel' for just water quenching for blades.
 
The reason behind his question is that he has a large lake right across the road from his shop.With all the water in White Lake he doesn't want it to go to waste !!
 
Hey sam wanna do a smelt? (unless you have the unlimited budget to back up the hypothetical part of the conjecture) I'm probably going to be cooking rocks again in april once I finish up some custom repousse pieces I'm working on, maybe see if we can cook up some simple steel to start with, then if you want to take some and do some crucible melts . . .

just a thought.

-Page
 
Chuck, that page must have some age on it.:) I know he's using Tough quench for his knives, he may be using water for jap swords (been awhile since he's done one) to get the upward curve. I also know, Don has tried just about everything to quench in :D

Thanks Man, but I have too much to learn to be called a master :o
 
Once you have learned all you need to, as well as all of use, we will be worm food....... At least a 7 MS panel called you a master and that is good enough for me, not to mention your work:D:eek::eek::D
 
Sam,

Nothing is "perfect" but we try really hard to make it work our way. I use water for quenching mostly. I have some blades crack but that is the nature of the beast. My ideal steel would be 1095 with a pinch of vanadium.
 
Don stop being so modest. Your hamons are a thing of beauty.:thumbup::D

I stopped using water after one try. I got the horrible ping. I didn't think I would be as mad as I was when it happened. So I've been really scared to try it again with ANY steel.

-Mike Sheffield
 
Jesus Hernandez said:
Sam,

Nothing is "perfect" but we try really hard to make it work our way. I use water for quenching mostly. I have some blades crack but that is the nature of the beast. My ideal steel would be 1095 with a pinch of vanadium.
Click to expand...

Sounds like W-2 to me.....

Will, The vapor jacket can be reduced in 2 ways. Use brine or put a fine layer of clay over your whole blade.

I tried water again when I got the W-2 from Don. I lost 4 out of 6 blades doing it in a retort inside the forge with a thermocouple. That's when I got the Parks. It works great and gives you just enough cushion. Now that I have my salt pot almost done I hope it will help. I may try brine again but only once. With the activity that Don H, and Don F, are getting with oil I think I'll stick with it.
 
Jesus,

The 1095 that Aldo has has a very small amount of vanadium in it.... You might contact him about it. Selling it for $3/lb delivered. Certs as follows:

C. .97
M. .48
S. .25
Cr. .12
V. .029
 
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