Water quenching steel, could it be done?

Jesus-Do you interupt the quench! How much is a pinch of vanadium? I like the idea with the 1095! Bill ( didn't mean to hijack!) Oops, Chuck got his post in and answered the vanadium question! thanks!
 
Up to this point I have edge-quenched with used motoroil. I was was warned to stay way from water, but I have never tried it. Would a brine be better? and what would the ratio be of salt to water? 1lb per gallon? and then this process would make the blade harder so what would your temper process be?
what is ping?

losing 50% of your blades would be unacceptable to me....
 
You can make a brine solution by adding enough rock salt to the water until a potato floats. Ping is the sound the blade makes when it cracks in the quench..... What steel you are using will determine the temper. For 1095 I would start at 400f and try to either a file test or brass rod test to see if it is tempered properly. Then if still too hard increase by 25deg and do it again. Repeat until a sharp file barely cuts Dull file slides and the edge flexes and returns with no chip out on the brass rod test.
 
Bill Armstrong said:
Jesus-Do you interupt the quench! How much is a pinch of vanadium? I like the idea with the 1095! Bill ( didn't mean to hijack!) Oops, Chuck got his post in and answered the vanadium question! thanks!
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Yes. I do break the quench both in time and in medium. The blade goes in water first just long enough for the particular steel to get under the nose in the ITT diagram. For W2 that happens very quickly. Then the blade comes out of the water showing a reverse curvature and will go back into an oil bath for the remainder of the quench. It will then take the appropriate upswing curve. I find that depending on the geometry of the blade I am trying to do I can control better the final curvature of the blade this way. Doing it like this the final curvature is just the same or 1/4 inch more than the curvature of the blade prior to quench. I am talking about long blades here. Over 2 foot long for the cutting edge.
 
Thanks for the input guys. Jesus, what sort of quench do you use for your tamahagane? Why I ask is, I wasn't looking so much for ways to successfuly water/salt brine quench a blade, but for a steel makeup that will allow this to be done with much less risk than regular factory steels.
 
Sam Salvati said:
Thanks for the input guys. Jesus, what sort of quench do you use for your tamahagane? Why I ask is, I wasn't looking so much for ways to successfuly water/salt brine quench a blade, but for a steel makeup that will allow this to be done with much less risk than regular factory steels.
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Sam, I realized what you meant with your question from the beginning. The problem is, there is no perfect answer. Just approximations. Water quench is hard on steel, more so on some than others but it makes a beatiful hamon. You have to live with the fact that there will be some failures. You can reduce the failure rate and stil get a hamon by using low austenizing temperatures and quenching in a fast oil.
I also use water for tamahagane. My home made steel is very much like any shallow hardening steel. Sometimes I just like being traditional.
 
The most effective brine quench is 10 % salt [NaCl] in water .....Heating water makes it less effective , but safer.
 
You guys are a lot braver than I am. At this juncture I can't deal with another ping sound. It kills my motivation. There again since I'm still really new I probably shouldn't be worrying about getting a hamon, but I love the look. I just can't stop myself.

-Mike Sheffield
 
Like was already said Mike score some AAA for the higher carbon stuff or Parks#50 for the lower carbon stuff and GO FOR IT! I find the problem with hamon is not getting them to happen, but getting them to show up in the finished blade.
 
I now KNOW what a freaking ping is !!!!!! :grumpy: LOL I think I like to experiment too much. :D
As far as hamons, I quench when the blade is about 75% or so done. Then I carefully grind it down to final shape. The hamon seems to appear better doing it this way...
 
I can't Sam. I'm really broke, and that stuff is expensive. Trying to get the house nice and up for sale is costing a fair amount of dough. I have no trouble with gettig the hamons to show with my wesson (i know i know but it's all I have guys) quench and my polish. My issues are that the damn thing gets way to close to the edge toward the tip, or the tip doesn't harden at all. This happens even when the clay is several inches away from the tip. The other issue I have is that it never hardens on the first inch or so of the blade. Maybe I'm just putting the satanite on too thick?
 
Mike try a quick interrupted quench would be my only suggestion, just a quick 2 or 3 second dip in water/brine then go into the oil, That is what Walter Sorrells does AFAIK, and a few other makers.
 
Well the new cru-forge steel that Crucible has been developing might be just what you're looking for Sam.

I got my hands on a piece and tried to heat treat a blade I forged out of it last night. Parks 50 wasn't fast enough for it.
 
OOOOOOO Do tell:D. Sounds like another steel to add to the "department of weirdo steels" along with Atlantic 33. Wulf, can you order it from Crucible?
 
I don't think it's comercially available yet. From what I understand they've been working with a few bladesmiths (including the guy I got mine from) to develop a steel designed specifically for forged blades. The stuff I got worked really well under the hammer, a lot like 1095, and it's clearly a shallow hardening steel, but quenching in Parks 50 only hardened the very thinnest parts of the blade. I'll try it in water and see what happens...
 
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