WAVED vrs NON WAVED

Noctis3880 said:
As fast as it is to open, the knife it's attached to(Emersons) generally seems to be crap quality. I mean, titanium LINER. The one that seems to be opened with any sort of regularity and not actually used has the liner moved almost all the way to the right. I'm sorry to say, but I sincerely doubt Mr. Emerson's knives are hard use or even fit for regular use.
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How many Emersons have you personally owned?

As for the wave, its a neat feature, but then again im no self defense expert...i have owned a handful of waved knives and it never ceases to impress people who havent seen one before:)
 
I am really fast with my CQC-11. Almost too fast because my wife says I look like I am going into a knife fight every time I pull it out. My CQC 11 waves well in sweatpants or just about kind of pants.

CQC11blade.jpg
 
1 minute video comparison of speedsafe, wave, traditional thumbstud.
(click on pic to go to video sorry i dont have youtube account)

as you can see to me deployment times are very similar. i dont see a huge advantage to one over the other. ALL are one handed openers. therefore it comes down to what knife can you open EVERY single time?????

if it were me i would personally prefer to carry a FIXED blade, but sometimes laws say you cant.

my opinion, if you carry a folder practice deploying it. practice until it becomes second nature. also i always carry the SAME self defense knife because under stress i don't want to fumble around with a different knife.

this is different than my edc/chore knife which i use for knife chores like opening packages food prep etc, these knives can rotate. hope this helps cheers.

:eek:

 
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Noctis3880 said:
As fast as it is to open, the knife it's attached to(Emersons) generally seems to be crap quality. I mean, titanium LINER. The one that seems to be opened with any sort of regularity and not actually used has the liner moved almost all the way to the right. I'm sorry to say, but I sincerely doubt Mr. Emerson's knives are hard use or even fit for regular use.
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Wow, your rant completely threw off my train of thought in this thread. I've had my Emerson Commander for several years and more recently my Emerson A-100 and they have both outperformed themselves on outdoor trips, around the house, and on duty.

As for the titanium liner, what do you think the ever so popular frame locks are made out of? Same stuff, just Emersons have a comfortable G-10 slab on the outside of the titanium. Heat/cool resistant and doesn't expand/contract with change of weather.

In my opinion from personal use and practice, a tip down carry folder with a thumbhole has been the fastest thing for me to pull out of my pocket, open the blade, and get a good firm grip. When my Emerson Commander had the wave on it (before I dremeled it off) it was fast to deploy - when the wave worked and I drew it properly - but not consistent. Thumb discs are great for opening too, but the thumbhole just seems a lot more full proof.

I carry an Emerson A-100 and a Spyderco Paramilitary 2, both are great knives, but I won't kid myself, the Paramilitary 2 is easier to open even though I like the heft and ruggedness of the Emerson A-100.
 
Laws be d*mned. I EDC a small fixed blade always, even at home unless I'm in bed or the shower. The sheath is kydex fold-over with jimping on the front of it, or along the spine. It's released inside the pocket when grabbed and comes out "in play, every time." :)
 
I have to say that the video was a complete joke. The people fumbling with their folders and everything. If I wave forward out of my left pocket, my hand is doung the same motion the entire time. If we're just needing enough force to pop a balloon, waving would be faster than reaching halfway around my back to pull out a fixed blade.
 
elvis.alive said:
I have to say that the video was a complete joke. The people fumbling with their folders and everything. If I wave forward out of my left pocket, my hand is doung the same motion the entire time. If we're just needing enough force to pop a balloon, waving would be faster than reaching halfway around my back to pull out a fixed blade.
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In all fairness, the video has to be viewed in the right frame of mind. I watched it years ago when researching the Ka-Bar TDI.

If you shift your attention to only the timed deployment to the balloon pop, that's what it was all about. These were law officers who really need to be able to deploy their blade as a weapon under certain circumstances. It was obvious, despite some fumbles, that they had their knives ready in the two second ballpark, from a standstill.

That's fairly quick IMHO, but using the fixed blade, in this case the TDI both the younger and the older man shaved 2/3 of their times off.

Bringing your blade to bear in a self defense situation is very serious to an LEO, more than most of us civilians. I suppose the answer is not so much if your choice is "waved vs. non-waved" but rather in finding the right knife for you and then practicing with it seriously. For "self defense" purposes that is ... just saying
 
batosai117 said:
Wow, your rant completely threw off my train of thought in this thread. I've had my Emerson Commander for several years and more recently my Emerson A-100 and they have both outperformed themselves on outdoor trips, around the house, and on duty.

As for the titanium liner, what do you think the ever so popular frame locks are made out of? Same stuff, just Emersons have a comfortable G-10 slab on the outside of the titanium. Heat/cool resistant and doesn't expand/contract with change of weather.

In my opinion from personal use and practice, a tip down carry folder with a thumbhole has been the fastest thing for me to pull out of my pocket, open the blade, and get a good firm grip. When my Emerson Commander had the wave on it (before I dremeled it off) it was fast to deploy - when the wave worked and I drew it properly - but not consistent. Thumb discs are great for opening too, but the thumbhole just seems a lot more full proof.

I carry an Emerson A-100 and a Spyderco Paramilitary 2, both are great knives, but I won't kid myself, the Paramilitary 2 is easier to open even though I like the heft and ruggedness of the Emerson A-100.
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I don't have a thing against titanium, just that it's used in a ridiculously thin liner lock. Most of my framelocks have at least twice the thickness of my Emerson liner locks. Also, I don't feel I get a lot of bang for my buck in the Emersons. My Super Karambit and ZT 0301 are roughly the same price, and the Emerson gives me a titanium liner with G10 scales and 154CM(not CPM154) steel, while my ZT gives me S30V with DLC coating, thick G10 scale with plenty of titanium(looks anodized for scratch resistance) on the other side, and SpeedSafe opening. Certainly a LOT more knife per dollar.

I've carried and used my ZT for about a year and the only real sign of wear is on the head of the oversized pivot screw(and did I mention ZERO blade play?). Whereas the coating on my CQC-7 has been worn off from mere pocket carry, the blade loosens enough to hit the inside of the handles again from mere pocket carry, and the tips have an ugly tendency to chip.

I'm sorry to say this, but had Emerson not patented the wave feature, I doubt I would ever have considered purchasing his knives.
 
I gotta echo Noctis here. More bang for buck with a CS Spartan. If I dig an Emerson so much, it goes to Reese Weiland for framelock conversion. For ****s sake, please make knives with L/R clip holes!
 
Mattohn said:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6ZivRcSnPyw

the demonstration starts at 5:40

Can you deploy your waved knife from a laying down position being stomped on or someone possibly on top of you? in a headlock?
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God that video is annoying. Look at the people doing the folding knife thing.... Not exactly worlds fastest people. The whole belt pouch knife idea is stupid. Someone sees that and grabs if off you then what? At least with a folder they would still have to open it. Seems they didn't point out that little downside.

I still think a waved knife would beat the TDI, As you draw it you're already moving towards the target. The TDI at least from what I saw was pulled up them pushed forward. I can say the waved knife DEFINITELY would throw someone off.
 
Bill86 said:
God that video is annoying. Look at the people doing the folding knife thing.... Not exactly worlds fastest people. The whole belt pouch knife idea is stupid. Someone sees that and grabs if off you then what? At least with a folder they would still have to open it. Seems they didn't point out that little downside.

I still think a waved knife would beat the TDI, As you draw it you're already moving towards the target. The TDI at least from what I saw was pulled up them pushed forward. I can say the waved knife DEFINITELY would throw someone off.
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No, not exactly the fastest, but I think "average" is where the average Joe is;). I think it's fair for those of us who aren't true ninjas(or Navy SEALs), as I would say that's about what my opening speed would be with a non-waved folder(3 sec on my Para2, 2 on my ZT 0301 and XM-18).

In such a situation where someone has a knife in a belt pouch on a cop, I still think the gun gets the most attention and it's what they'll go for first. Besides which, I don't believe the pouch for the knife was all that obvious(pretty sure the knife pouch is behind a pouch).

But really, my only issue with waved folders is the grip. Aside from the Emerson karambits, I see pulling out a waved folder will mean that you would essentially be gripping the butt end of the folder in a loose grip, and it would require you to shift the knife into a more secure grip, which would leave it exposed for a little bit. Perhaps not a huge exposure, but try that in the middle of a scuffle and I wouldn't be surprised if the knife gets knocked out of your hand.

A fixed knife is simply #1 by design. It's like trying to argue that a hammer isn't the best tool for pounding a nail into a wood post. I'm just carrying a folder because of potential legal issues, and because my Izula is not the best for some cutting chores(like cardboard). But I think I know by now that if the SHTF, I'm reaching for my Pink Izula:thumbup:. Out of the sheathe and extended forward in 1 second:D.
 
Noctis3880 said:
No, not exactly the fastest, but I think "average" is where the average Joe is;). I think it's fair for those of us who aren't true ninjas(or Navy SEALs), as I would say that's about what my opening speed would be with a non-waved folder(3 sec on my Para2, 2 on my ZT 0301 and XM-18).

In such a situation where someone has a knife in a belt pouch on a cop, I still think the gun gets the most attention and it's what they'll go for first. Besides which, I don't believe the pouch for the knife was all that obvious(pretty sure the knife pouch is behind a pouch).

But really, my only issue with waved folders is the grip. Aside from the Emerson karambits, I see pulling out a waved folder will mean that you would essentially be gripping the butt end of the folder in a loose grip, and it would require you to shift the knife into a more secure grip, which would leave it exposed for a little bit. Perhaps not a huge exposure, but try that in the middle of a scuffle and I wouldn't be surprised if the knife gets knocked out of your hand.

A fixed knife is simply #1 by design. It's like trying to argue that a hammer isn't the best tool for pounding a nail into a wood post. I'm just carrying a folder because of potential legal issues, and because my Izula is not the best for some cutting chores(like cardboard). But I think I know by now that if the SHTF, I'm reaching for my Pink Izula:thumbup:. Out of the sheathe and extended forward in 1 second:D.
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I concur with the above : thumbup:

As for Emerson Knives, you have the right to your opinion and I to mine :) Personally they've been great users for me.
 
Noctis3880 said:
As fast as it is to open, the knife it's attached to(Emersons) generally seems to be crap quality. I mean, titanium LINER. The one that seems to be opened with any sort of regularity and not actually used has the liner moved almost all the way to the right. I'm sorry to say, but I sincerely doubt Mr. Emerson's knives are hard use or even fit for regular use.
Click to expand...

I know that the custom emerson's are way more than the production models but what's the difference in quality between the two.
You know to make the custom's 4 or 5 times the price over the production folders.
 
Mattohn said:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6ZivRcSnPyw

the demonstration starts at 5:40

Can you deploy your waved knife from a laying down position being stomped on or someone possibly on top of you? in a headlock?
Click to expand...

Maybe, maybe not, but if i was in a laying position being stomped on then I would be pretty freaked out, and I would be limited to gross motor movements, and I would call finding a small button recessed in a handle as fine motor skill
 
Noctis3880 said:
I don't have a thing against titanium, just that it's used in a ridiculously thin liner lock. Most of my framelocks have at least twice the thickness of my Emerson liner locks. Also, I don't feel I get a lot of bang for my buck in the Emersons. My Super Karambit and ZT 0301 are roughly the same price, and the Emerson gives me a titanium liner with G10 scales and 154CM(not CPM154) steel, while my ZT gives me S30V with DLC coating, thick G10 scale with plenty of titanium(looks anodized for scratch resistance) on the other side, and SpeedSafe opening. Certainly a LOT more knife per dollar.

I've carried and used my ZT for about a year and the only real sign of wear is on the head of the oversized pivot screw(and did I mention ZERO blade play?). Whereas the coating on my CQC-7 has been worn off from mere pocket carry, the blade loosens enough to hit the inside of the handles again from mere pocket carry, and the tips have an ugly tendency to chip.

I'm sorry to say this, but had Emerson not patented the wave feature, I doubt I would ever have considered purchasing his knives.
Click to expand...
True. For the price, Emersons can't match competitors' steel and materials selection. The Emersons are also sharpened on one side, even if they're V ground.

Not to mention the ZT 030X handle is 3d machined on both sides and drilled and tapped for 4 position carry.
 
Sc** Emerson knives, I'd never own one of those chisel ground, over priced folders. That's just my personal opinion, if you like them, someone has to pay their salaries so enjoy. :thumbup:

Back to waved vs non-waved. I never did this before. I put a very small zip-tie on my Centofante 3 Spyderhole, cinched it up tight, cut it and melted the nub sticking out. That little sucker opens like a bolt of lightning - it actually works perfectly! :D :D
 
Frizzman said:
I have an Emerson CQC-10 with the wave. I like the wave mainly for easier opening with a gloved hand. I don't particularly like the way the knife can partially open when drawing from the pocket. It has bitten me a couple of times and it is very sharp. For a dedicated defensive knife I prefer a compact fixed blade in an IWB sheath. For a general use knife I would prefer to not have the wave. I can open it while pulling from the pocket faster than with an automatic or assisted opener. The biggest problem with that is not catching clothing or my own flesh in the process. If it was possible without damaging the blade I would have the wave on the Emerson removed.
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Send it to Emerson and they will remove it for you.
 
I could remove the wave for you.
 
the wave feature is really a handy thing. it is faster then auto knives but some you do have to move ur hand around to get a good hold. the design of the wave works perfect for the emerson and fox karambit. the ring is in place to put your finger in and when the blade opens you just close your hand and its ready. the other folders you have to move your hand into the handle. when you pull out the karambit it is already in the positon you need you can switch it to the other hold by preference but in fast times its already out. with the fox it also comes with a attachment on the side of the blade that the spring assist blades use but with it since its not spring assisted with a little flick of the wrist it opens up. the blade opening is so smouth that it doesnt really take anything to open it. heres my fox karambit
FOX_480BK.jpg

FOX_480.jpg
 
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