Way off topic: Do any of you hogs own a Keltec RFB?

Hope you have healed up OK and wishing you the best for the future :thumbup:

I also hope you take the issue of what went wrong to a proper conclusion. Get an independant report done on that pistol first and then send it back in for them to check and see if you both can agree on what was the cause. If appropriate sort out some compensation.

Guys who have these issues but don't take them forward can stop the needed progress of changes to make these products safer. You do everyone a favour by taking these steps.:thumbup:
 
Thanks Peter. All things considered I am grateful to be here. I have lost some vision and other problems, but it could have been much worse. Not going into detail, but rest assured that steps are being taken.
 
Do I love Kel-tec, no, but I like the products I have tried. I have a PMR-30, SU-16b, SU-16c, sub 2000 (.40 sig), and a PLR-16. I am happy with them all to the extent that at least one usually goes with me whenever I leave home because it isn't the end of the world if it gets stolen yet I can count on them to shoot when I pull the trigger and they are lighter weight. Thousands of rounds between them, no problems with those models but I can't speak for anything else. I do plan to get a KSG, and maybe even an RFB if I can find them.

For every bad gun review you read online, there are thousands out there with nobody complaining about them or taking time out of their day to post positive reviews. The bad publicity power of the internet can sometimes be overrated, and every machine that gets manufactured will have it's lemons, like it or not.:barf: For the money, you get a low cost, decent quality gun with excellent customer service... I am a happy repeat customer. :thumbup:

Without defending or attacking anybody, I would be much more worried about becoming victim of injury/death via DUI, airbag or tire blowout based on statistical probability over a gun kaboom. I also understand where one might be unhappy with a kaboom from any brand :eek: as it almost always sucks to be the guy that draws the short straw. :( That said, accidents with machinery of all kinds do happen as a sad fact of life and definitely one takes a risk in using them (especially with a high pressure explosion contained in your hand) but does that honestly or fairly equal intent to kill?:confused: Regardless of cause, I hope the injured party heals quickly and is taken care of properly as that is only fair and right.
 
I have shot one of the prototype L1A1 Bullpups from the 60s.... novel experience I must say.... !!! The KelTecs get mixed reviews for sure, i would like to take one for a run but would be hard to convince past an 18 inch Para FAL.
 
So, there are three guys on this one forum who have KSGs. Based on the limited availability, I'm impressed! Where did you get yours? Gun Broker, LGS? And Garth, if you say Clelands, I'm making a trip home to Toledo as soon as I get back from this trip! I've actually seen and held one at a LGS, but it wasn't for sale(!!!), as they didn't want "someone buying it and jacking up the price". I'm not making that up.
 
It is a valid point that you can always have a "lemon" in any manufactured machine. FWIW I have had to go to a lot of far flung places and utilise what could be bought there ... safety wise I have took consolation in that they were at least not new with defects :D However, some were well past their retirement date ... you have to figure that anything is better than nothing at those given times ... but recreational shooting ... I never see any merit in owning lots of middle of the road weapons.

I also am suprised at people on here ... because let's face it ... Busse's ain't cheap when it comes to knives ... who don't carry that "custom" or "best of manufactured breed" through to their pistols/rifles.

Own one "great" pistol ... one "great"rifle and one "great" combat shotgun ... ditch a few safe queens or multiple middle of the road weapons to do so. We all have favourites in these choices ... no need to ram one maker down anyone's throat ... but I would have thought the taste in knives would cross over more to the taste in weapons ...

I don't rate Keltec as a comparable product to Busse ... the only thing is that for the OP as I have already said ... I think this is the only semi auto bull pup for a .308 which is manufactured. Changing the stock on a SOCOM for a design which has a rod going from one trigger to another is an alternative ... apparently the trigger pulls are not too bad on these ... but again it does'nt strike me as a similar product to a Busse.

If it were me I would look at a Styer AUG and swap out the barrel for a 6.5 Grendell ... this can work in a .223 platform/ .223 magazines and is every bit as effective as a .308 at distance and a lot more accurate in terms of wind drift and BC on the bullets. Now if someone did that for a Bullpup ... then you are talking comparable rifle to a Busse IMO ...:thumbup:
 
PeterPHWS;11055606 I never see any merit in owning lots of middle of the road weapons. I also am suprised at people on here ... because let's face it ... Busse's ain't cheap when it comes to knives ... who don't carry that "custom" or "best of manufactured breed" through to their pistols/rifles. Own one "great" pistol ... one "great"rifle and one "great" combat shotgun ... ditch a few safe queens or multiple middle of the road weapons to do so. We all have favourites in these choices ... no need to ram one maker down anyone's throat ... but I would have thought the taste in knives would cross over more to the taste in weapons ... I don't rate Keltec as a comparable product to Busse ...:thumbup:[/QUOTE said:
Exactly what I was thinking...
My tastes in guns evolved over many years of buying and selling cheap guns...same with knives. I have personally had bad experiences with kel tec......But, I have to admit, the KSG and bull pup 308 get me kinda pumped...getting hard to resist the cool factor...I secretely want 'em...just cause...have to remind myself of the lessons I've learned. M1A scout 18" bbl hands down! Blasphemy to say otherwise...I must admit they feel like your lugging a canon after miles on your shoulder...and you'll hate it...but once you need it you'll be sooo very happy you're holding a real gun that will not fail you. Just my opinion. That being said...I think I might need that RFB for fun.
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Show me a .308 bullpup (other than the M1A conversion which i cannot STAND) and i'll give it some thought.

I am a bullpup guy. That's my weapon of choice for anything other than hunting. (Browning A-bolt .308 with Zeiss for hunting)

Keltec makes the only off the shelf .308 bullpup that i know of.
 
Andy the Aussie said:
.....yeah......BUT it will still be an AUG at the end..... :eek:
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AUG stands for Armee Universal Gewehr or in English, “universal army rifle.” It is'nt a seperate make or collaboration with Steyr ... these are made by Steyr ...

Or am I missing the point you want to make ?

I did some coaching for the Sultan of Oman's team who came over to Bisley for the Service side of the Queens Medal Competition. They have AUG's as their issued weapons ... at the same time I was also doing some Help for Heroes Charity shoots where one of the weapons people could shoot was the new A2 SA80 ... IMO the AUG is a much nicer weapon to use ... even though the A2 has had a considerable "work over" by H&K ... they are much faster in the hand ... much more quicker to engage multiple targets ... a bit more compact and slimline and are as reliable as anything out there ... the Steyr issued scope can be improved upon but with the new model's picattiny rail system you can easily swap these out ... they are'nt integral anymore ...

For the OP you can get a STEYR AUG A3 SA .223 specifically for the US market and speak to Bartlein or Lilja or any top barrel maker for a custom barrel swap for 6.5 Grendell ... if you like Bullpup rifles these are definately the best out there ...


If you would only go for a .308 ... then there is only Keltec ... the bolt face is the same on the AUG but the mag's are too small, as is the ejection port ... you cannot convert to this calibre ...
 
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I don't disagree... i love the AUG.

That said, I am looking for a sort of bugout weapon, and since i already have 4000 rounds of .308, that caliber is my preference.

The cost of getting another 4k rounds is a bit prohibitive when combined with buying another rifle.
 
Don't forget you can always sell the 4000 rounds and buy an alternative calibre ... and you can swap out the barrel on your Browning hunting rifle for a 6.5 Grendell as well ... for Deer it is spot on ...

When it comes to "bugging out" one key thing is the amount of ammo you can realistically carry ... I kicked off doing this sort of thing in the Falklands when we had SLR's ... we all said the same thing that you could'nt carry enough ammo ... the 6.5 Grendell is similar in size and magazine's to carrying .223 ... so you can carry a hell of a lot more per mag ...

I am not a fan of .223/5.56mm on stopping power compared to a .308 ... I would go .308 in that toss up ... but the 6.5 Grendell is a different round ... I would definately go with that if I had the choice using 120g bullets or reload for the 130g Bergers ... they might actually be doing those in factory ammo now ... whichever way ... you can alter the 6.5 bullets to go up to 139g scenars if you want ... they are all proven man stoppers. The 6.5 has been in use as the 6.5 Swedish Mauser for around 100 years. I still use that calibre as my hunting calibre for Deer. Kilamanjaro Bell and a number of other African White Hunters used these for Elephant on head shots. They prefered the 6.5 Mannlicher Schona rifle. The calibre was chosen for the sectional density of the bullets. They are superb for penetration and would not break up on the Elephant's skull.

For their "proven" performance on human targets check out the Finnish sniper "Simo Hayha" ... he has the highest confirmed kill record of any Sniper ever ... yet he did all his work in less than a year ... over 500 confirmed kills ... all with a 6.5 x 55 Swedish Mauser Carbine and no optical sight ... these are accurate and effective bullets :thumbup:
 
Beprepared, if that is the "entry gun" you have researched and want, go and get one.
From my experience of Owning and Firing one, it is exactly what it was made to do without any modifications.
Also 308 will be around alot longer that either one of us will be. The 308 will always be obtainable in bulk also. Facts.
--Bill
 
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If it's something you want, give it a shot. Worst case scenario is that you don't like it and sell it or it's a 1 in 1,000,000 (or whatever number it is) that it fails. Sometimes you just have to get something you really want cause nothing else will make you happy. The chances of failure are most likely minimal :) Just my 2 cents
 
My reference to the AUG/Steyr/F88 was akin to "polishing a turd" .... ;) at the end....all you will have is a shiny turd.... ;) ;)

I am not a fan.... :eek:
 
LOL ... shiny turds ... well that is a one way of looking at it ...

As to what the others say I have to agree with them ... the odds are way in your favour of getting a Keltec which works fine ...

I also think there is no harm in trying one out ... you can always sell it ...

The 6.5 grendell is worth looking at and is a better solution IMO ... but there is nothing wrong with the .308 ... if you can "bug out" with 4000 rnds ... you're not short on ammo either ... but a hernia might kick in if you're on foot :D
 
On foot is my absolute WORST case scenario. I plan to use my xterra as long as possible, and if needed i can always just make my wife carry the ammo ;)
 
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