We had a dissatisfied customer today. This just kills me.

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murat1983 said:
I just went and checked the engravings on my three CPKs and the kephart and FK2 has significantly shallower engraving than my Behemother. Did this bother me? No, it did not! I did not even look for that until this thread. May this bother someone else? Apparently it did, so it may. Shall I go and bash that person for speaking his mind? Unlike some of you here, I would not do that. And I think the reason Nathan posted this thread is because he values his reputation and wants to keep his business transparent. I think he intended to provide a disclaimer about what his products are about (again) and what the customers should expect from his products. I highly doubt he was trying to give you a target to throw your "CPK love" on that guy (or gal?)! He even anonymise the customer. So, I do not understand all the hate some of you guys have this toward this customer.

The customer has the right to buy, dislike and complain about the product. Nathan has the right to acknowledge or not (depending what he thinks about the issue) the complain to be within merit or not and do what he thinks is right.

We could argue the way the customer expressed himself being appropriate or not (which I believe is not). But really the hate (replace this with CPK loyalty) I see in this sub-form is sometimes just too much. Why can't you just let the guy speak his mind? Similarly, we could argue that Nathan as the business owner needed to be the "better man" and not to post this thread here. He probably did not intend to make the customer a target but I think he should have known "the potential" of his "fan base" and how this thread could potentially turn out to be a witch hunt thread!

I can also understand the frustration of Nathan as he is striving to do the best but the fact is considerable portion of his customer base consisted of "big fans" such as this guy (who not only had more than one CPK but also opted for high dollar DEK 2 and SHIV pre-order). So, because of the fact that Nathan has that kind of customer profile, he knows that whatever he makes would sell in seconds at whatever the asking price is. However, such customer type comes with a cost, and the cost is this kind of behaviour. So, in my humble opinion, if Nathan is OK with selling his knives in milliseconds (literally) even very expensive pre-orders (which is a well deserved achievement but also a very rare in knife community), he might want to develop a thicker skin which undoubtedly would be helpful to manage situations like this in the future.

I think this thread should be posted without the option of comments to serve the intended purpose thinking that it was not Nathan's intention to start a witch hunt.
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He called it embarrassing and cheap. And then used it as a pretext to cancel his Shiv pre-order which says "no cancellations for any reason" in several locations.

You're right. I do have thin skin. But I have tried to keep him anonymous and address the complaint and not the person.
 
murat1983 said:
I just went and checked the engravings on my three CPKs and the kephart and FK2 has significantly shallower engraving than my Behemother. Did this bother me? No, it did not! I did not even look for that until this thread. May this bother someone else? Apparently it did, so it may. Shall I go and bash that person for speaking his mind? Unlike some of you here, I would not do that. And I think the reason Nathan posted this thread is because he values his reputation and wants to keep his business transparent. I think he intended to provide a disclaimer about what his products are about (again) and what the customers should expect from his products. I highly doubt he was trying to give you a target to throw your "CPK love" on that guy (or gal?)! He even anonymise the customer. So, I do not understand all the hate some of you guys have this toward this customer.

The customer has the right to buy, dislike and complain about the product. Nathan has the right to acknowledge or not (depending what he thinks about the issue) the complain to be within merit or not and do what he thinks is right.

We could argue the way the customer expressed himself being appropriate or not (which I believe is not). But really the hate (replace this with CPK loyalty) I see in this sub-form is sometimes just too much. Why can't you just let the guy speak his mind? Similarly, we could argue that Nathan as the business owner needed to be the "better man" and not to post this thread here. He probably did not intend to make the customer a target but I think he should have known "the potential" of his "fan base" and how this thread could potentially turn out to be a witch hunt thread!

I can also understand the frustration of Nathan as he is striving to do the best but the fact is considerable portion of his customer base consisted of "big fans" such as this guy (who not only had more than one CPK but also opted for high dollar DEK 2 and SHIV pre-order). So, because of the fact that Nathan has that kind of customer profile, he knows that whatever he makes would sell in seconds at whatever the asking price is. However, such customer type comes with a cost, and the cost is this kind of behaviour. So, in my humble opinion, if Nathan is OK with selling his knives in milliseconds (literally) even very expensive pre-orders (which is a well deserved achievement but also a very rare in knife community), he might want to develop a thicker skin which undoubtedly would be helpful to manage situations like this in the future.

I think this thread should be posted without the option of comments to serve the intended purpose thinking that it was not Nathan's intention to start a witch hunt.
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So you support the customer being able to voice his opinion, but not the other folks on this forum? BS to me from both the ‘customer’ and your rant.
 
ferider said:
However irrational the customer's opinion is, I agree with you.

What bothers me is him/her stepping back on the non-refundable Shiv pre-order. That's a breach of contract.

Hate is a strong word.
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And because of that, he would not get a refund (if it was my decision) for his pre-order. I highly doubt anyone would be willing to be good to him and refund his pre-order money after such behaviour. But then again, this is not the place to bash people. I think in general, some people here could be more welcoming and friendly then what is demonstrated here.
 
Nathan the Machinist said:
He called it embarrassing and cheap. I guess I have thin skin, but that cuts me.
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Not thin skin. This dude accused you of malfeasance personally directed at him, and of shoddy workmanship.
It irks and concerns all of us that this person brought such a claim against you when EVERYONE knows you to make the best product and stellar customer service.
 
beeinak said:
So you support the customer being able to voice his opinion, but not the other folks on this forum? BS to me from both the ‘customer’ and your rant.
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There is a difference between raising his/her opinion and bashing his/her head with a CPK love! I think you should think harder to understand the difference.
 
I have but a modest collection but I lined them up and noted the variances in the engraving (mostly just the color). It's something that has never once bothered me - in fact, I like the character that it imbues in each blade.

(forgive the shaky video - it was done in haste)


9s5X20C.gif
 
I have to agree that the customer erred in his approach. He's certainly entitled to his opinion as to the workmanship and its value...and also would have most likely been entitled to a nice profit had he sold the current knife and the Shiv down the road.

But his language was demeaning and went from zero to sixty without provocation. I can completely understand how it would make Nathan, Jo and company feel.

I trust them to make the right decision (for themselves and CPK) in addressing the matter.

The support for CPK here speaks volumes, and at the same time I hope that the (allegedly) aggrieved party finds a way out of whatever predicament he or she is faced with which may have prompted this matter to start with.
 
Blues said:
I demand a refund...you two-timing, unethical hucksters. Just look at this piece of sub-standard workmanship I have. Just look! Do you see that delta 3v mark? How anything like this slipped through the production line is beyond me. You'll be hearing from my congressman in short order.

View attachment 2077456View attachment 2077457




(Oh, and in case anybody sees this post and is a first timer here on the sub-forum and unfamiliar with our banter...this is sarcasm. No actual knives were injured or returned during the making of this post.)

I was actually made aware of the mark when I bought the knife...just in case I was going to swoon upon receiving it from Tony in MT. The horror.
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Has to be a story behind this one. I can't remember that one leaving the shop, but we would not normally ship that. Sometimes I'll send a blem to someone like Lorien or give it to some other friend but there's not usually a glaring error like that
 
Nathan the Machinist said:
He called it embarrassing and cheap. And then used it as a pretext to cancel his Shiv pre-order which says "no cancellations for any reason" in several locations.

You're right. I do have thin skin. But I have tried to keep him anonymous and address the complaint and not the person.
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I can relate to how you must have felt. It is not an easy skill develop a thick skin and be calm when you encounter with such behaviour and it is not even warranted. I might have do what you did here but I would have turned off the comments knowing what kind of shit show this might turn into. I appreciate you kept the customer anonymous that was being kind of you.
 
murat1983 said:
I can relate to how you must have felt. It is not an easy skill develop a thick skin and be calm when you encounter with such behaviour and it is not even warranted. I might have do what you did here but I would have turned off the comments knowing what kind of shit show this might turn into. I appreciate you kept the customer anonymous that was being kind of you.
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On the flip side though, it's good to have your support base offer up encouragement when you're feeling down. That's what many of us are doing - or at the very least, attempting to.
 
murat1983 said:
There is a difference between raising his/her opinion and bashing his/her head with a CPK love! I think you should think harder to understand the difference.
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You are not very bright if you think supporting CPK quality is bashing our heads with blind love. His followers are very discerning and would be quick to spot flaws. I would think anyone buying something/anything that is not stamped out will have variations. The 2 CPK knives I have are absolutely flawless, and that kind of craftsmanship combined with awesome customer service and availability to answer questions builds a devoted following. If a knife was somehow sent out from CPK that did not meet their standards, I am sure Nate would want to know ASAP. This wasn’t the case.


Edit by Nate: easy brother. Let's tone it down a notch.
 
Nathan the Machinist said:
Has to be a story behind this one. I can't remember that one leaving the shop, but we would not normally ship that. Sometimes I'll send a blem to someone like Lorien or give it to a friend but there's not usually a glaring error like that
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Tony told me that it was the way it was received, (to assure me that he hadn't done any work to it other than fitting a pair of his scales on it).
(He said it was an "early" D3V model...as I recall...but I'm going from memory.)

I'll discard it now.



☺️ 🍻
 
Nathan the Machinist said:
"Hi Jo,

I received my DEK2 today and the stamping on the blade is really weak. The D3V and LA stamps are the weakest. I figured that I would check with you to see if you want me to show this blade on the forum, or not.

Everything else looks great and the Osage is just gorgeous! I love the weight and feel of this knife.

Let me know what you want me to do. I provided a couple of photos.

Thanks for everything!

Take care,

------"


Hi ------,

I am glad you like it. The markings are all engraved, not stamped and there is a little bit of variation from one blade to the next. Of course you can show it on the forum.

Have a great day!
Jo



Hi Jo,

It looks pretty cheap to me. I've seen many, many photos of CPK knives on the forum and don't remember ever seeing the markings looking this bad. None of my other knives' markings look even close to as bad as this DEK2.

I figured that yall would be embarrassed that this blade made it through QC. I never thought that yall would do me like this.

I would like for you to cancel my Shiv order and refund my money please.

Take care,

------

JuDbajC.jpg


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Look folks. I have always told anybody who will listen that we make a high quality product with good bang-for-the-buck. It's high performance geometry, ergonomics and the best metallurgy that money can buy in a reasonably priced package that a person can justify buying and using. We cater to the users. I'm glad there are collectors who appreciate our work and want to buy it on its aesthetic qualities but the users are my focus. I don't cut corners, I spare no expense or effort to make the best product that I am capable of producing and I trim the fat so there is real value in the work. Everything I make is sold as field grade. There are visible tool and grind marks. The geometry and metallurgy are right, but it's not a decorative piece or a wall hanger. I believe we make the best knives of their kind that can be found. And, beyond functional considerations, the engraving depth is not a huge consideration for me.

Everything I ship is flawed. I'm not capable of perfect work and you probably wouldn't want to pay the cost for a 99.9% perfect effort, and that isn't how I want to spend my time on this earth. There are different definitions of perfect, and my definition is perfectly optimized. Perfect in every way is a fools errand. If your definition of perfect is perfect fit and finish, please find a maker who wants to dedicate his time in this craft towards that, because I'm focused on making the best knives in the world, not the prettiest.

We have pretty good fit and finish. I tell anyone who will listen, that is not, and never have been, our focus but it's an effect of being competent machinists with good tools and a refined manufacturing process. We're good at what we do and it shows in our work, but the good fit and finish is just a byproduct of quality workmanship, never the primary objective.

If you are a user who wants the best tools of their kind in the world, I am honored to make tools for your kit. That's why I do this. If you're a collector who's primary goal is to obtain outstanding specimens based on aesthetic appeal, you are (of course) welcome here, but if a baseball card collector opens a pack of cards and doesn't get the card he wanted (and that card was never advertised as being a part of that pack) you wouldn't complain about it. Not every knife we sell is a 100% visibly perfect specimen. I have always said these are user grade tools and I've never sold a tool knife based on its visual perfection.



4CsJ8Cn.jpg




That knife was competently machined and meets every physical and visual specification we have here. It is not defective, and I do not apologize for shipping it. I'm proud of that work. I give my work my best effort and when someone tells me that it isn't good enough, I eternalize that as I'm not good enough. This complaint offends me. The truth is, perhaps the buyer of this work should find a maker whose objectives better align with this collectors' requirements, because I have done my best and what I have committed to and if it isn't good enough, I really can't help this guy and I don't want his business, this really sucks the joy out of this for me.
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I’ve dealt with a loooottttt of customers in my life. Some of them are just like this no matter what you do. I saw a guy on Reddit kicking and screaming and calling out a pocket clip maker by name and saying he “sucks” because he hadn’t responded after a few hours on a Saturday to an IG DM. People tried to gently tell him maybe this was unrealistic, the guy is reputable, hang on a minute, but he doubled down and then tripled down. I try to remember there’s probably a lot going on in the life of a person like this. They were raised a certain way. Their dad is sick. They may need meds. Whatever. I just try to remember it’s probably something and that the something probably isn’t me. Water off a duck’s back, man. I haven’t yet been able to buy one of your knives, but I’ll tell you, you have one of the best social media presences I’ve ever seen and your knives are on my list partly for that reason.

I think you’re totally right to say “that’s well within our parameters and I’m perfectly proud for that to be public.” Customers have rights, but makers have rights as well, and you get my respect for clearly drawing the line.
 
murat1983 said:
I just went and checked the engravings on my three CPKs and the kephart and FK2 has significantly shallower engraving than my Behemother. Did this bother me? No, it did not! I did not even look for that until this thread. May this bother someone else? Apparently it did, so it may. Shall I go and bash that person for speaking his mind? Unlike some of you here, I would not do that. And I think the reason Nathan posted this thread is because he values his reputation and wants to keep his business transparent. I think he intended to provide a disclaimer about what his products are about (again) and what the customers should expect from his products. I highly doubt he was trying to give you a target to throw your "CPK love" on that guy (or gal?)! He even anonymise the customer. So, I do not understand all the hate some of you guys have this toward this customer.

The customer has the right to buy, dislike and complain about the product. Nathan has the right to acknowledge or not (depending what he thinks about the issue) the complain to be within merit or not and do what he thinks is right.

We could argue the way the customer expressed himself being appropriate or not (which I believe is not). But really the hate (replace this with CPK loyalty) I see in this sub-form is sometimes just too much. Why can't you just let the guy speak his mind? Similarly, we could argue that Nathan as the business owner needed to be the "better man" and not to post this thread here. He probably did not intend to make the customer a target but I think he should have known "the potential" of his "fan base" and how this thread could potentially turn out to be a witch hunt thread!

I can also understand the frustration of Nathan as he is striving to do the best but the fact is considerable portion of his customer base consisted of "big fans" such as this guy (who not only had more than one CPK but also opted for high dollar DEK 2 and SHIV pre-order). So, because of the fact that Nathan has that kind of customer profile, he knows that whatever he makes would sell in seconds at whatever the asking price is. However, such customer type comes with a cost, and the cost is this kind of behaviour. So, in my humble opinion, if Nathan is OK with selling his knives in milliseconds (literally) even very expensive pre-orders (which is a well deserved achievement but also a very rare in knife community), he might want to develop a thicker skin which undoubtedly would be helpful to manage situations like this in the future.

I think this thread should be posted without the option of comments to serve the intended purpose thinking that it was not Nathan's intention to start a witch hunt.
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You bring up some valid points...

Most here on this sub-forum probably don't have an issue with any of the engraving variations for this particular sample.

And that customer does have the right to be dissatisfied... If that is how he feels about it.

Also, Internet/Social Media "pile-ons" are not positive thing but I don't think that this was Nathan's intent.
 
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