WE Knife Thoughts

Stedemon,We,Rike,Kizer I have no problem owning these brands, not to buy them just because of where the are made, your only cheating yourself out of a 1st class product that is second to none.Look at the cold steel 4 max, u.s. made, they had fit and finish problems, if it was made in their tawain factory it probably would have been fine from the start.now its being made in Italy .Look at the buck vantage, it been hit or miss for years, liners all the way to the other side and uncentered blades,ive yet to see a kizer with a liner pinned to the opposite side ...
 
I've seen issues with kizer and steadmon. Nice knives otherwise iffy QC tho. Tho they may have improved lately I find them plane and boring overall when compared to say we knives. But we cost more for the extra machining etc.
 
PURPLEDC said:
Well seems spyderco still produces knives in china so if china is still good enough for them then I don't see your point of boycotting. And if its political for you then we should probably not discuss it further.


I think the thing is some aren't convinced these brands don't have a hand in counterfeiting. I have seen a lot of clones. I have also taken many of them apart. And at the very least these companies have the same sources for parts. Its unclear just who makes what. None of us really know who makes these knives. I have purchased probably 50+ knives direct from china. Many of the brands people now know and respect. But all of them no matter who I bought them from all came from the same city. Often the same address. We only know what we are shown which isn't very much. I personally don't care. I buy what I like and can afford and I don't consider a single thing after that except the quality of the product. But if people don't want to support cloning or counterfeiting in any way its hard to know who is and isn't double dipping. But I know the bearing system used in the WE knives is the same as quartermaster, kevin john, vitelli, rike, vespa and reate just to name a few. I have zero proof but I get the impression a very large number of these clones all come from 1 or 2 factories and are either made as part knives to be finished by the people running the individual brands or several brands are just made under one or two companies with several names they put on the actual product. Again I have no proof but it seems to be a little more "cottage" industry over there than it is here.
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Alot of clones are made in some guys corner garage or pop up factory with a few stations. Then they have some small factories. Yes alot are made by the Kevin John factory too. Pretty sure we knives have there own CNC machines as well as rike and reate. Yes alot of them source the same bearings and other hardware like that.
 
PURPLEDC said:
{snip}
I think the thing is some aren't convinced these brands don't have a hand in counterfeiting. {snip}
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The premise behind that thinking is "All brands from China are counterfeiters unless proven otherwise." Which is, in my opinion, ignorant, bigoted, and sad.

The assertion that all of those brands use the same bearings and pivots is absolutely false, by the way. I can tell you with 100% certainty that I cannot interchange the bearings between my Rike, Reate, and WE knives. I do not own the others listed.
 
Steering back to the original question, here's a review posted to YouTube of the 616; it offers some overall comments on We and what you can expect.

[video=youtube;AsShSiFOM7A]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AsShSiFOM7A[/video]
 
Cutlerylover has a nice first impressions video on YT now with the WE 617...
 
OmarShablotnik said:
The premise behind that thinking is "All brands from China are counterfeiters unless proven otherwise." Which is, in my opinion, ignorant, bigoted, and sad.

The assertion that all of those brands use the same bearings and pivots is absolutely false, by the way. I can tell you with 100% certainty that I cannot interchange the bearings between my Rike, Reate, and WE knives. I do not own the others listed.
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If you knew who i was you would not say that. But because it violates forum rules i dont talk about what I do elsewhere, here on the forums. But I would wager i have a bit more first hand knowledge of who makes what and how than most and that is all im going to say. As far as the bearings go it is not false. You are making the assumption that each brand only uses one style of bearing which that is not the case. There are currently four or five different bearing systems that get used the most in china and the one that gets used depends on the knife design and what will fit. So yes, the bearings can be swapped. You just dont own any models that this can be done with. I didnt mean every knife from china uses the same system. But that many models from those various brands have used the same system at some point and that those same bearings can be found in various clones. But even reate has changed their bearings at least three different times.

Lets just say i know for a fact certain legit companies respected here have things manufactured by the factories that make clones. And that some of the brands got their start making clones. And many of the chinese brands started under a different name and created a second name in which to do business here. Its not an uncommon practice. One of rikes models that they charge $400 for here got its start on the chinese wholesale sites and two years ago you could buy that $400 knife for under a hundred dollars. And at that time many of their other models were heavily influenced by hinderer. Now, do i really care if anyone believes it. Not really. Because i would have to provide information that im not willing to provide. Im not trying to sound all cloak and dagger but i like being here and I try really hard to stay within the rules. And i dont want to change that.


Mo2 said:
Alot of clones are made in some guys corner garage or pop up factory with a few stations. .
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Please provide your sources for this information.
 
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PURPLEDC said:
If you knew who i was you would not say that. But because it violates forum rules i dont talk about what I do elsewhere, here on the forums. But I would wager i have a bit more first hand knowledge of who makes what and how than most and that is all im going to say. As far as the bearings go it is not false. You are making the assumption that each brand only uses one style of bearing which that is not the case. There are currently four or five different bearing systems that get used the most in china and the one that gets used depends on the knife design and what will fit. So yes, the bearings can be swapped. You just dont own any models that this can be done with. I didnt mean every knife from china uses the same system. But that many models from those various brands have used the same system at some point and that those same bearings can be found in various clones. But even reate has changed their bearingbs at least three different times.




Please provide your sources for this information.
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I'm not sure where you're going with this. Do you think American or European knife makers manufacture their own bearings? Ball bearing manufacture is something entirely different from knife manufacture and I'd hope and expect to see them outsourced by all manufacturers. I've worked in the bearing industry and it's definitely a specialty product that would typically be beyond the capability of a knife maker. The expense and effort for a knife maker to manufacture their own bearing would be ridiculous when they can purchase bearings to spec from people who make them for a living.

If clone knives use bearings with the same ID, OC, run and span as the name brand knives...doesn't that just confirm that they're indeed clones? Why would a cloner copy a knife and change the bearing specs? This makes no sense. This commonality of bearing type is a result of cloning, not a nefarious connection between a named company and an un-named cloner.

I'm not saying that current "named" manufacturers haven't derived in some way from the cloning industry, just that your ball bearing argument doesn't prove it.
 
PURPLEDC said:
If you knew who i was you would not say that.
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Wait. Yes, Yes I would. The statement that "some aren't convinced that these brands don't have a hand in counterfeiting" defines the "some" that you are talking about as having convicted Chinese brands as having a hand in counterfeiting until proven otherwise, because there is no direct evidence that Rike, Reate, and WE (as prime examples, and namely WE as that's who this thread is about) are counterfeiting anything. You reference that they may use the same bearings; that's not evidence of anything other than they probably use the same parts suppliers (if it's true.)

So: I Say Again. IF someone isn't convinced that (we) doesn't have a hand in counterfeiting in an absence of any evidence is, in my opinion, ignorant, bigoted, and sad.

Thanks.
 
OmarShablotnik said:
Wait. Yes, Yes I would. The statement that "some aren't convinced that these brands don't have a hand in counterfeiting" defines the "some" that you are talking about as having convicted Chinese brands as having a hand in counterfeiting until proven otherwise, because there is no direct evidence that Rike, Reate, and WE (as prime examples, and namely WE as that's who this thread is about) are counterfeiting anything. You reference that they may use the same bearings; that's not evidence of anything other than they probably use the same parts suppliers (if it's true.)

So: I Say Again. IF someone isn't convinced that (we) doesn't have a hand in counterfeiting in an absence of any evidence is, in my opinion, ignorant, bigoted, and sad.

Thanks.
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Ok, you believe what you want. And I will know what i know. Just remember that there is a reason I often times will warn the forum certain clones will be available weeks, months and even a year in advance and im not psychic. And there is also a reason i haven't shared hardly any information about my collection in three years. But if it came between exposing my sources and failing to provide you with enough information to satisfy your suspicions well you are just going to have to be suspicious. I should have just sat back and watched the show like I usually do. Lesson learned.
 
PURPLEDC said:
Ok, you believe what you want. And I will know what i know. Just remember that there is a reason I often times will warn the forum certain clones will be available weeks, months and even a year in advance and im not psychic. And there is also a reason i haven't shared hardly any information about my collection in three years. But if it came between exposing my sources and failing to provide you with enough information to satisfy your suspicions well you are just going to have to be suspicious. I should have just sat back and watched the show like I usually do. Lesson learned.
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What bothers me is that I know of WE and their people to be honest and great to deal with and makers of a high quality product. This reads like the (sadly common) sentiment that they're probably shady (because they're from China) - and even a step beyond with the way you are wording this, as if you have some solid reason to think they're involved in cloning and other unsavory practices yet you're unwilling to say so. That bothers me because there is no evidence that I've seen to support this, and I hope it explains my disagreement with these posts.

It's like what we see all over social media and other forums regarding lots of things, politics being a supreme example: Do we run with un-sourced, un-verified information which gets used ALL THE TIME for smear purposes? Or do we question the shit out of things to actually make informed decisions?

:concern:
 
OmarShablotnik said:
What bothers me is that I know of WE and their people to be honest and great to deal with and makers of a high quality product. This reads like the (sadly common) sentiment that they're probably shady (because they're from China) - and even a step beyond with the way you are wording this, as if you have some solid reason to think they're involved in cloning and other unsavory practices yet you're unwilling to say so. That bothers me because there is no evidence that I've seen to support this, and I hope it explains my disagreement with these posts.

It's like what we see all over social media and other forums regarding lots of things, politics being a supreme example: Do we run with un-sourced, un-verified information which gets used ALL THE TIME for smear purposes? Or do we question the shit out of things to actually make informed decisions?

:concern:
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You are putting words in my mouth. I never said we for sure is involved. I was intentionally vague. And when i said some people i was speaking in general terms of why some (not me) are suspicious of these manufacturers. So let me be clear on we. I honestly dont know. And what i do know about other brands is not something I am willing to talk about. Sometimes people have relationships that remain friendly because they only share what they have been given permission to share. The only two knives i have that I am even allowed to discuss here are my two microtech ultratechs. The rest are chinese knives. And i cant not show them here because they are chinese. I became interested in the chinese knife market back before reate even existed and I developed some friends based on that interest and lack of bias.

Back on the topic of we. I have no idea if they have a hand in cloning. But even if they did its not illegal in that country. Just like it isnt illegal for esp guitars of japan to make fake gibson les pauls as long as they dont distribute them in the usa where gibson is protected under US law. But given my experience with other chinese knives and seeing manufacturing similarities, shared components and finishing techniques its hard not to think they (various brands not just we) are connected in some way

You say you know WE and their people to be honest. Im going to have to assume based on that statement you have a relationship that extends past the two years they have been doing business in the United states and gos back the twenty odd years they claim to be in business when they claim to have been making knives but no knows for who right? Because i personally have relationships in china too with a few certain brands and its been ongoing for a few years now but what is and isnt the truth only they know. If someone on the opposite side of the planet is lying to me its pretty hard to figure out.

I started dealing with people in china to get a better understanding of how things work over there. I have learned a lot but there is still a lot that I dont know. But one thing I have learned is that I will never be told something they dont want me knowing. People are good at hiding things. And honestly ask yourself who is going to admit to making clones knowing damn well its going to hurt their name? I have no interest in hurting any company. Not even the ones who make clones as Im generally against the idea of patents. But I do believe in the truth whatever that is. And the only point I intended to make from the onset is that no one knows despite what they are told. Its not a china thing. Its a human being thing. No company I know of is completely transparent. But with that said I do wonder what we had been making since 1997 if we have only seen their knives here in the last couple years.
 
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PURPLEDC said:
You are putting words in my mouth. I never said we for sure is involved. I was intentionally vague. And when i said some people i was speaking in general terms of why some (not me) are suspicious of these manufacturers. So let me be clear on we. I honestly dont know. And what i do know about other brands is not something I am willing to talk about. Sometimes people have relationships that remain friendly because they only share what they have been given permission to share. The only two knives i have that I am even allowed to discuss here are my two microtech ultratechs. The rest are chinese knives.

Back on the topic of we. I have no idea if they have a hand in cloning. But evenif they did its not illegal in hat country. Just like it isnt illegal for esp guitars of japan to make fake gibson les pauls as long as thry dont diftribute them in the usa where gibson is protected under US law. But given my experience with other chinese knives and seeing manufacturing similarities, shared components and finishing techniques its hard not to think they are connected in some way. You say you know WE and their people to be honest. Im going to have to assume based on that statement you have a relationship that extends past the two years they have been doing business in the United states and gos back the twenty odd years they claim to be in business when they claim to habe been making knives but no kniws for who right? Because i personally have relationships in china too with a few certain brands and its been ongoing for a few years now but What is and isnt the truth only they know. If someone on the opposite side of the planet is lying to me its pretty hard to figure out. I started dealing with people in china to get a better understanding of how things work over there. I have learned a lot but there is still a lot that I dont know. But one thing I have learned is that I will never be told something they dont want me knowing. People are good at hiding things. And honestly ask yourself who is going to admit to makingg clones knowing damn well its going to hurt their name? I have no interest in hurting any company. Not even the ones who make clones as Im generally against the idea of patents. But I do believe in the truth whatever that is. And the only point I intended to make from the onset is that no one knows despite what they are told. Its not a china thing. Its a human being thing. No company I know of is completely transparent. But with that said I do wonder what we had been making since 1997 if we have only seen their knives here in the last couple years.
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This reads fairly.

No, I don't have a relationship with We prior to them emerging as the brand they are now, but I am quite comfortable with what I see.

Thanks.
 
OmarShablotnik said:
This reads fairly.

No, I don't have a relationship with We prior to them emerging as the brand they are now, but I am quite comfortable with what I see.

Thanks.
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And please man, im not trying to claim im some secret insider. I tried to become that guy but i discovered i probably have a better chance of uncovering proof of Roswell being legit. No harm intended. But as a person who constantly asks for proof of others, I should know not to speak up if im not able or willing to do the same. So for that I apologize.
 
I have seen several hundreds of knives from the pre WE period they made for other companies/oem market. And those were no clones either.
 
henkh said:
I have seen several hundreds of knives from the pre WE period they made for other companies/oem market. And those were no clones either.
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Can you explain what they made beforehand? Im genuinely interested in their history.
 
PURPLEDC said:
Can you explain what they made beforehand? Im genuinely interested in their history.
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I actually am as well, only because I'm curious to see if their earlier OEM work was the same quality. I bought a 601 as soon as they became available and it was pretty amazing how high the quality was for a first foray into higher end production knives.
 
Misanthropia said:
I actually am as well, only because I'm curious to see if their earlier OEM work was the same quality. I bought a 601 as soon as they became available and it was pretty amazing how high the quality was for a first foray into higher end production knives.
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That's why I want to know. It would be interesting to compare what they made before to what they are doing now in terms of quality. Either way their prices to me are very reasonable for what you actually get. I have had my eye on the carbon inlay 606 but wished it was 601 size. Still carbon inlay, anodized ti, proprietary hardware, Signed custom pivot of another color, two tone blade with adjustment tool and a case. For $300? Plus the fit and finish. Its a no brainer.
 
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