We should probably talk about that last pre-order. The K20 do-over

There once was a shop took orders pre
And the head of that shop was Natan C
The posts came fast and the goods were gone
Go, me bully boys, go ("IN")

Soon may the Deltaman come
To bring us knives and swords and fun
One day, when the order is done
We'll make our sheaths and show

He'd not been two years from the or-door
When down on the shop a Bob whale bore
The Natan called all hands and swore
He'd never tell that whale no (huh)

Soon may the Deltaman come
To bring us knives and swords and fun
One day, when the order is done
We'll make our sheaths and show
 
There once was a shop took orders pre
And the head of that shop was Natan C
The posts came fast and the goods were gone
Go, me bully boys, go ("IN")

Soon may the Deltaman come
To bring us knives and swords and fun
One day, when the order is done
We'll make our sheaths and show

He'd not been two years from the or-door
When down on the shop a Bob whale bore
The Natan called all hands and swore
He'd never tell that whale no (huh)

Soon may the Deltaman come
To bring us knives and swords and fun
One day, when the order is done
We'll make our sheaths and show
You are a living legend my friend!
 
The K20 pre-order is done and set in stone. For the folks who wanted one and didn't get one, I'm sorry.

but I have developed a plan...

Firstly, I kind of screwed this up a little bit, I guess, (pre-orders aren't supposed to be a madhouse) though I'm not entirely sure what I should have done differently. To the armchair quarterbacks, hear me out.

Initially, I didn't really like pre-orders but we had enough good customers who don't happen to be keyboard ninjas struggling to get the kit they need from us that we started doing pre-orders to relieve the Friday sales. At first this started out with something like a Field Knife where we would make a pattern and if the Friday sales were bananas we'd re-release it with a pre-order where we would take the money from that pre-order to buy the materials and then we'd make them. This is not a bad model but it involves setting up and re-running a pattern and as some of our patterns have become more complex and some of the manufacturing processes have evolved it becomes problematic setting up and tearing down a pattern multiple times. Patterns like the Shiv and the OG FK were probably set up over and over again 5 times in their short lives. They lacked some of the complexity of the newer patterns and they were run as side work while we were primarily a machine shop running knives on the side and running a knife production shop this way would sink us today. So, it is helpful to set up and run something one time and be done with it. So, sometimes, with something like the K18 and the DEK1-2-3 we did a pre-order and then bought the material for that pre-order. But the K20, I bought that material in advance. Like the K18, the K20 is a sword, so I had the material rolled differently with less cross rolling in order to draw the billet out along the length of the material in order to maximize certain properties I want in a sword. So instead of developing a plate or a normal sheet, we rolled the steel into long narrow strips which only yield a few pieces across its width. This needed to be piggybacked onto a heat which I did back when we got the material for the Utility Fighters. If I would have known I was going to need more material I could had added some to the DEK1-2-3 but I didn't do that. So, in order to get more material I'll need to add it to our next steel order. We buy steel in billets and we won't be buying any more steel this year, we already have the material in house for all of our upcoming projects. We'll order steel for the special production run of whatever knife our special customer orders for delivery in 2024 (2023 is already in process) and the Shiv is on the table for that. wouldn't that be exciting. But it's going to be a little while before we can run more material for a sword.

I'm rambling...

Long story short, if we would have done a regular pre-order where we take the orders and then order the steel, that material would need to be added to something else in order to get the full billet. Unless we sold 300-500 swords and that would probably do an entire billet by itself. And, because it's an experimental pattern for our particular process, that sort of thing could result in a lot of losses. If we lose half of 100 swords we'll be fine. But attempting 300 swords (which is where that pre-order was heading) would sink us if things go sideways. That's not a risk I want to take. So, given the inherent limited quantities and the difficulties in getting a little bit more material, I really couldn't accommodate more orders. I could have charged $2,500 and reduced the numbers that way but that runs contrary to our bang-for-the-buck sales model. This was a no-win situation where I couldn't satisfy everybody. You could argue "Nate you should have limited it to one per person", and perhaps I should have, but this is a pre-order and all other pre-orders in our company history a person could have as many as they want, implementing a limit of two was unprecedented and I though good enough. It's not a Friday sale! (although it sure felt like one didn't it?)

So here is the plan. I will attempt 145 swords from this batch of steel. Based on some tribal knowledge using the Delta protocol on swords I'm estimating an 80% yield which will allow us to fulfill the pre-order with some margin for error. And, in order limit potential price gouging and to address those who wanted one but didn't get one (and assuming this run is successful) I'm announcing that we will have another K20 pre-order next year when it's time to order another heat and those who were on the original pre-order on the first day will be given first consideration, in the order that they posted. Unless there's a big problem with production, the K20 is not a one time run-and-done pattern, we will come back to it and those of you who were there last Friday are first in line on the next run if you still want it.

I apologize to those who were expecting a normal pre-order and got the Friday mad-house treatment instead. It's a problem and I don't have a good answer for it but we're working on it and Jo, Mark, Bo and I appreciate your patience and your support.

(Sadie dog doesn't)
This pretty much says it all. Originally came for the products. Stayed because of the company.
 
^ don't wish to derail but I used the term underpriced because CPK definitely delivers more value than what they charge for therefore making the term technically correct. I am not oblivious and know that there are some folks in here who are very fortunate who can afford tens of CPK knives in any given pattern and yet there are also other folks on much tighter budgets who at times struggle to scratch enough just for one. I think that Nathan caters more toward the latter camp which is awesome as he is expanding the CPK tent.

As for the second statement, my own personal cutoff is circa $3K and under 3 years fulfillment period for one sword or really anything with a sharp edge and a pointy end. This is why I never looked at other customs including Keffeler caliber swords from other sources, including Dr. Dan himself. I am very happy that Nathan took the plunge for his customers. YMMV.
All true.

One of the main reasons I became a CPK fan, is the performance oriented bang-for-the-buck factor.

Literally thousands of knifemakers out there, many of whom are producing works of art worthy of display in a museum, but there aren't as many who focus on just about EVERY single aspect of performance the way CPK does. From the blade profiles to the contoured handles and even heat treat.

The other makers I've found who share a similar approach towards performance oriented designs, typically cost ~3x - 4x as much.

So, yes, on the one hand, folks could say that CPKs offer the best value for top-of-the-line performance, but if we're comparing apples to apples, it's also fair to say that CPKs ARE underpriced when you look at comparable offerings by other makers, but what's also true, is that Nathan's approach/philosophy has been able to introduce many more people to top-of-the-line edged performance, who likely wouldn't have otherwise.
 
I don't think there was anything to be done differently this go around - I really hope you're not beating yourself up over it. The fact of the matter is, swords are cool as hell, and after the mad scramble that ensues every time there is a hint of a possibility that a K18 might be offered up, it is not surprising at all to witness what occurred with the K20 pre-order. Word spread of CPK sword awesomeness and with that, the legend and scarcity of it drives demand.

Besides, I suspect there isn't an outfit out there that is manufacturing swords with the capabilities that you guys are imbuing into them. I ordered a $3500 custom sword a few years back - it was a rather careful reproduction of an early 18th century Scottish basket hilted sword. Your swords would 100% obliterate my expensive wall hanger - my sword is still a sword and acts and feels like a sword but it wasn't make to cleave droid skulls after Skynet takes over, it was made to historical specs and in these times, that amounts to... well, an expensive wall hanger.

Your reputation as a shop, coupled with the word getting out with regards to your swords, is going to continue to drive demand in a way you aren't fully anticipating. These sorts of things are going to continue to happen now and then because you guys are awesomely humble. No sweat though, you can correct course accordingly and due to you transparency and the general goodwill you guys generate ALL THE TIME, I would be surprised and more than a little disappointed to hear that folks were upset at you for anything.

Seriously, no sweat. The folks that missed out this go around get a second chance in the future and that just speaks to your awesomeness yet again.

Love you guys, you make Bladeforums an infinitely better place with your active presence here.
Word DEFINITELY spread. There are a LOT of names in the preorder that I've never seen.

I'm sure at least a few of those, were from seeing Nate's videos of what the K18 (and other CPKs) are capable of.

*** It also occurred to me that I should maybe stop runnin my yap, singin the praises of CPK and posting the videos everywhere. I might stand a better chance at ranking higher on the madhouse sales/preorders.😂

Then I realized, "Who am I kidding? I'm all for helping spread the word. If CPK can expand and continue to grow, so much the better!" 😁
 
No worries, at least with a chance to get one later on, I won’t have to worry about secondary prices. So, regardless if they’ll cost more due to material prices, they’ll still be cheaper. Hopefully by then gas prices will have leveled off.
 
... We'll order steel for the special production run of whatever knife our special customer orders for delivery in 2024 (2023 is already in process) and the Shiv is on the table for that. wouldn't that be exciting. ...

Thanks for the detailed explanation.
Wow, I thought the Shiv was gone forever, so I'm guessing this will be the Shiv2? 😲
Cool! 👍

Edit: Consider this as my pre-order request for one Shiv2. ;)
 
Word DEFINITELY spread. There are a LOT of names in the preorder that I've never seen.
I'm one of those. Been lurking here for a while attracted initially by the videos of Nathan chopping the cinder blocks etc, whatever year the videos came out by which may be a while back.

Having exchanged some messages with Nathan I came to understand and appreciate his real passion for the job and hobby, may be more hobby than job the way I see it. The man will spend time typing up a half page technical explanation for something, and another half page elaboration when the first didn't get across.

So when the order was open I had to get one and am glad I did
 
The K20 pre-order is done and set in stone. For the folks who wanted one and didn't get one, I'm sorry.

but I have developed a plan...

Firstly, I kind of screwed this up a little bit, I guess, (pre-orders aren't supposed to be a madhouse) though I'm not entirely sure what I should have done differently. To the armchair quarterbacks, hear me out.

Initially, I didn't really like pre-orders but we had enough good customers who don't happen to be keyboard ninjas struggling to get the kit they need from us that we started doing pre-orders to relieve the Friday sales. At first this started out with something like a Field Knife where we would make a pattern and if the Friday sales were bananas we'd re-release it with a pre-order where we would take the money from that pre-order to buy the materials and then we'd make them. This is not a bad model but it involves setting up and re-running a pattern and as some of our patterns have become more complex and some of the manufacturing processes have evolved it becomes problematic setting up and tearing down a pattern multiple times. Patterns like the Shiv and the OG FK were probably set up over and over again 5 times in their short lives. They lacked some of the complexity of the newer patterns and they were run as side work while we were primarily a machine shop running knives on the side and running a knife production shop this way would sink us today. So, it is helpful to set up and run something one time and be done with it. So, sometimes, with something like the K18 and the DEK1-2-3 we did a pre-order and then bought the material for that pre-order. But the K20, I bought that material in advance. Like the K18, the K20 is a sword, so I had the material rolled differently with less cross rolling in order to draw the billet out along the length of the material in order to maximize certain properties I want in a sword. So instead of developing a plate or a normal sheet, we rolled the steel into long narrow strips which only yield a few pieces across its width. This needed to be piggybacked onto a heat which I did back when we got the material for the Utility Fighters. If I would have known I was going to need more material I could had added some to the DEK1-2-3 but I didn't do that. So, in order to get more material I'll need to add it to our next steel order. We buy steel in billets and we won't be buying any more steel this year, we already have the material in house for all of our upcoming projects. We'll order steel for the special production run of whatever knife our special customer orders for delivery in 2024 (2023 is already in process) and the Shiv is on the table for that. wouldn't that be exciting. But it's going to be a little while before we can run more material for a sword.

I'm rambling...

Long story short, if we would have done a regular pre-order where we take the orders and then order the steel, that material would need to be added to something else in order to get the full billet. Unless we sold 300-500 swords and that would probably do an entire billet by itself. And, because it's an experimental pattern for our particular process, that sort of thing could result in a lot of losses. If we lose half of 100 swords we'll be fine. But attempting 300 swords (which is where that pre-order was heading) would sink us if things go sideways. That's not a risk I want to take. So, given the inherent limited quantities and the difficulties in getting a little bit more material, I really couldn't accommodate more orders. I could have charged $2,500 and reduced the numbers that way but that runs contrary to our bang-for-the-buck sales model. This was a no-win situation where I couldn't satisfy everybody. You could argue "Nate you should have limited it to one per person", and perhaps I should have, but this is a pre-order and all other pre-orders in our company history a person could have as many as they want, implementing a limit of two was unprecedented and I though good enough. It's not a Friday sale! (although it sure felt like one didn't it?)

So here is the plan. I will attempt 145 swords from this batch of steel. Based on some tribal knowledge using the Delta protocol on swords I'm estimating an 80% yield which will allow us to fulfill the pre-order with some margin for error. And, in order limit potential price gouging and to address those who wanted one but didn't get one (and assuming this run is successful) I'm announcing that we will have another K20 pre-order next year when it's time to order another heat and those who were on the original pre-order on the first day will be given first consideration, in the order that they posted. Unless there's a big problem with production, the K20 is not a one time run-and-done pattern, we will come back to it and those of you who were there last Friday are first in line on the next run if you still want it.

I apologize to those who were expecting a normal pre-order and got the Friday mad-house treatment instead. It's a problem and I don't have a good answer for it but we're working on it and Jo, Mark, Bo and I appreciate your patience and your support.

(Sadie dog doesn't)
Nathan, this is fantastic, and as one of those that just couldn’t make the 5 pm time work and didn’t get in in time because of another commitment, I must say I’m thrilled, and look forward to getting on the list on the next run. Thanks much!
 
I received a very nice email from Jo letting me know I landed on the goal line with a few seconds to go!

That’s a lot of time for great things to happen! 🍻
It was a nail biter for a lot of us. It's a first world problem counting the posts before yours and how many they were in for. It was the "IN" with no quantities that caused the drama!
 
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