Weldwood Gel?

O

Omega Leather Works

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Jun 13, 2007
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I was at the hardware store tonight picking up a few things. I noticed that they carry Weldwood contact cement gel, and original formula. I stuck (zing!) with the original formula, but I'd love to know if any of you have tried the gel.

Only thing that I dislike about WW original is that it's super stringy, meaning it stretches like melted mozzarella cheese. If the gel doesn't do that I'm sold.

I'd love to get some of that stuff that Ian Atkinson uses. It looks more like the consistency of glue stick glue, but I have no idea what it might be called on this side of the pond. I'd need to test it to see if I liked the strength it provides too.

Thanks
 
I've never used any gel products, but I imagine it would work fine for large flat application, but would be very difficult to control in smaller tighter areas without spreading it beyond the intended limits. I've used Barge for years and I probably thin it more than the average maker so I can literally paint it into the smaller areas without a lot of, or any clean up. The gel would necessarily be a lot thicker and I would think be counter to my methods.

I also imagine the bond of the gel and regular formula would be very similar.

Paul
 
Which Weldwooid are you Weldwooding with buddy, (further zing)? Here ya go. Get er at the Depot http://www.homedepot.com/p/DAP-Weldwood-1-Gal-Non-Flamable-Contact-Cement-203898/202588232 Doesn't kill the brain cells like the red Weldwood or Barge does.When you are glueing up 30 0r 40 sheaths at a time, retaining what few brain cells might remain is important, plus no headaches. Easy to apply, just paint er on, (get foamy brushes at the Lobby, 50 pack for six bucks). I keep the glue in a refillable ketchup squeeze bottle from the .99 cent store, the ones like diners had on every table back in the day. This was the wife's suggestion and it works really, really, really well. Hate it when she's right. Anyhoo, squeeze a little out of your ketchup bottle, spread around with your foamy as needed and your stuck, (zing again). No mess, no mozzarella (you probably hate cheese) and this stuff really works. You can thin it with water if needed. I buy it by the gallon, but it comes in quarts too. I have yet to find a leather too oily for this to work on and I work with a lot of oily chap leathers. I do keep a small bottle of the red Weldwood around but only for zippers if I'm making a pair of chaps. For some reason the green stuff won't stick to the ribbon of a zipper, quien sabe? To answer your question I've not played with the gel and won't. Until Dap changes the formula and this stuff stops sticking, I'm stuck. The days of glue exploration are over. I was a dyed in the wool Barge man prior. Glue pot (you know the cool ones with the square bottom, teflon sides and the brush in the top) on the bench and a gallon can of glue and a gallon can of thinner on the floor in the corner. Don't know what happened to the glue pot and no more gallon cans of stinky stuff in the corner.
 
I do believe I will try that squeeze bottle idea! :) I could never bring myself to spend what equals a shoulder of leather on a pot for glue. Seems a lot for a little to me.

I also like the safe aspect of the water base, and tests prior on this forum proved that it does indeed work as well.

In college we were always looking for safe alternatives to the toxic chemicals we so often had to use in printmaking. It was always encouraging to find something not only safe for me but also safe for the environment and ended up working if not just as well, sometimes better. Art is supposed to be soul fulfilling not life shortening.
 
In my opinion I believe the green Weldwood to exceed Barge in bonding strength. Now this is based on nothing more scientific then pulling stuff apart that I need to repair or something but I tell ya what, it sticks leather together for sure.
 
Dave, if you are that sold on green Weldwood, I'm going to have to give it a try. (That is right after I go through 2 gallons of Barge and 2 gallons of thinner). Sure hard to change horses this late in life though. I still love my glue pot, though. Will it work with the green stuff???

Paul
 
Paul, I sure don't see why it wouldn't work with the glue pot. For "cool factor" those glue pots have my ketchup bottle beat hands down. Something else that makes me like this stuff better than Barge is it seems to dry much faster. Not sitting around waiting. Particularly when thinned down for accurate glue placement. You will like it.
 
HAHA, yeah, I kinda get tired of looking at thousands of tons of cheese! Making it ain't a roll in the hay either! :)

Thanks for the replies. I investigated further into this gel stuff last night. It looks like it gets very high marks, especially for ease of application, but they say it's every bit as strong (good call Paul). I agree that it might be harder to get into tight areas. Might have to trim some acid brushes to work it.

Tell ya guys what. I'll buy a can and do a run of testing on veg tanned. If it is too messy or something I'll chalk it up to learning.

Funny, while looking for videos on YouTube I ran across the diner condiment idea. Seems brilliant. They sell a two pack (obviously red and yellow) at the dollar store. I'll give it a shot, but I know I'll like it already.

I also need to try the green can. My wife is sensitive to the red label stuff and I have to go hide when I use it.

Dave, incidentally, the reason why I was at the store in the first place was to pick up a can of resin for the burlap micarta. I realized after I got home that I don't have enough yellow burlap, but I have plenty of the burnt orange stuff. Just gotta figure out if the resin dyes would look good with it, or if I should go natural. Any preference? The red dye might look good, but I'm not sure.

5Vgl8Cd.jpg
 
Burnt orange and natural. My wife is able to use this green stuff inside the house. Her workshop is a formal dining room just off the kitchen here inside the house. No fumes at all, Paul, you gonna hate me. Gotta go gather and bring em in. Preg checking in the morning.
 
Well I couldn't stop my curiosity. I learned two things.

1. A condiment (or similar) squeeze bottle is the solution to one of my biggest gripes in leather work.

KpLqX6g.jpg


2. Weldwood Gel is exactly what I was looking for when I started this thread.

The condiment bottle works so well, I wish that I'd known about it from the start. It's not just a matter of accuracy and proper quantity (which it excels at in both areas) but it also gets the dispensing right on the target. Seems obvious, but it eliminates the stringy behavior that I don't like. For less than 50¢ it's one of my best new tools. I only wish that mine came with caps. So far a qtip end is working fine.

The Gel formula goes even further to eliminate the problems. Straight out of the big can, an acid brush makes easy work of getting the glue on target. It does not have the benefits that the bottle gives, but works so well that you don't need the bottle to begin with. If you've watched Ian Atkinson apply glue you'll have an idea of what WW Gel looks like. No mess that dries in mid air like the Original formula.

I'm testing the Gel alongside the OF to see how it stacks up. I already know what to expect from the OF, but I thought I'd do a side by side anyway. Both claim to dry (cure I guess) at 15-20 minutes. I'll leave them clamped for a couple of hours while I busy myself other things.

3jKDZR7.jpg


I also picked up some Rubber Cement. I'll be using this for help with temporary placing for drilling and such. I have no idea what to expect in terms of how strongly it holds, or what kind of residue (hopefully not much) it'll leave behind.

For those of you that use RC, what do you use it for? Can I use CC on top of whatever residue it leaves behind, or must it all be removed before permanent fixing?

I'll post up what I find with the CC's. I applied them both according to the directions so hopefully I'll be able to detect any differences, although going by what I've read and your experiences, I expect they'll be very similar.

I'd love a Teflon pot, and may still buy one one day, but these solutions are definitely an improvement and I thank you (thanks David!) for your input.
 
I forgot to mention, Lowes carries the green label, but only in gallon size cans. I'll probably try that next.

Also, when I say thank you, Dave, I really mean your wife. :p :D
 
Strig, I use rubber cement for holding down the inlay material in the window until I can get it on the machine to stitch it. Also any other application where I need a good bond, but one that is temporary and will pull apart easily for repositioning if necessary. Rubber cement residue is easily removed if done pretty soon (within an hour). I use a medium bristle brush like a shoe brush or even a soft bristle tooth brush and it just balls up a little and comes right off, and then regular contact cement may be applied right over the spot if necessary, successfully. I also use the Barge thinner to thin the rubber cement, so I think it would also remove a stubborn spot if you ever ran into that.

Paul
 
Well that was interesting.

I took the sample apart and here's what I found.

ykofPEd.jpg


It's hard to tell in the photo, but the left is the Original formula and the right is the Gel.

Let me state that this was far from a scientific test, but the results speak for themselves.

The Original Formula (OF) worked just like last time when I tested it against Barge. The fibers tore apart before the bond broke. I feel that the leather is the weak link in this case.

The Gel tore down the middle of the bond. There is cement on both pieces of leather.

Right now I have OF cement on the spot where I pulled apart the bond using Rubber Cement. The RC bond was very light as expected. It may have separated from a few hard shakes. I didn't attempt to remove the residue before applying OF Cement. We'll see what happens.

While I feel like I learned something from this "test" I think it's worth noting that the bond from the Gel is what I consider sufficient. There could have been many factors that could have influenced the results that I'm not privy to so take them for what they're worth. I am pleased with both Cements and will happily use both. If I ever have a need for the absolute in bonding strength (couldn't be any better, right?) I'll reach for the gooey stuff.

Since I mentioned it, Barge had strength equal to the OF Weldwood. I'd have no problem using it, however availability and price makes WW a better choice for me.
 
Just tried that last bond. Original Contact over Rubber Cement. Good call Paul. It had all the strength that the contact cement had without the residue. I'll use the Rubber with confidence (that doesn't sound quite right). ;)
 
Question: Why do you use clamps after gluing? I see clamping occasionally and never quite understood why. Most of it I see is when wet molding, but I've never had the need there either, they make unwanted marks imho.
 
Here's the answer. I've got no answer. :D

No seriously, I almost never use clamps. Only time is when a molded piece doesn't lay flat, but that pretty much never happens unless the glue is too wet. I even bought a few hundred popsicle sticks to disperse the clamping force in order to minimize marking, but I think I've only used two sticks and they've just gone back into the package.

Weldwood claims that clamping is unnecessary. I don't have my bottle of Barge handy, but it's possible that clamping is mentioned and I picked up the habit for testing that way from my initial run. In any case, it's totally unnecessary, but for whatever reason I do it for testing.

You think it might skew the results? I doubt it, but who knows. :confused:
 
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