Went to buy a Sebenza, almost walked out with a ZT0562?

[Ajack60]

Good choice P Pendexter , aren't you glad now that you didn't wait to get the ZT. It's a sweet knife, now, go and put it to use and post some pics of your ZT with personality on it.

 

[yamsi12]

I've handled a fair share of sebenzas and it's never really spoken to me. The 0562 is a great knife, it's one of my 18 ZTs in my collection.

 

[Lapedog]

I've owned a few Chris Reeves, I no longer own any.

I did like the Umnum/Umnum Tano a lot and if they weren't so...sterile? I'd likely own a few of them. Jim Skelton on Youtube owns a customized one that I absolutely adore.

With that being said, my wife carries a 0562CF slicer with CTS-204P steel and it's unequivocally her favorite knife. I have gifted her many very expensive knives from various makers throughout the years but that's the one that is in her pocket most often. The action is superb, the fit/finish is tops, and the materials are top of the line, save for the STEEL LINER (which I despise.)

It doesn't surprise me that you were taken by the ZT, they make a product that's hard to beat at the price point.

They do their best to not mention that their liners are steel as much as possible. Lots of people are surprised to learn it isn’t titanium. Now on the first generation of 560 and 561s they skeletonized that steel liner until there was only a thin web of steel left, that atleast was abit better.

But now that they are consistantly using nonskeletonized steel liners that sort of pisses me off. Either use a titanium liner or just go with no liner like on the 452. Quit trying to pass these stainless steel plates off under our unsuspecting noses. I have seen well renowned youtube knife reviewers calling these liners titanium totally unaware of their error. In recent videos too!

 

[Pendexter]

I like the #15 Scout, you have good taste. Is the 940-1 gone?

940-1 is gone. I try to keep my knife "collection" under 5 knives. There are a few guys at work that like knives, so I'll sometimes sell/trade with them, and I've been known to gift knives when I go to a birthday party without a gift.

I'm really liking the combo of a bigger folder with a slipjoint. This way, I have a drop point and a sheepsfoot, and a thicker knife and a super slicer.

I might like the clip point traditionals a little better than the sheepsfoot, but having both a straight edge and a blade with belly just feels right to me.

I'm looking forward to doing Zero Tolerance things to this knife. Maybe I'll come across an upside down burning car where I need to smash a window, stab through some steel, and then cut someone out of a seatbelt. That's what ZT's are for, right?

While I wait for that to happen, I will be happily breaking down diaper boxes for recycling.

 

[SeppukuSamurai]

They do their best to not mention that their liners are steel as much as possible. Lots of people are surprised to learn it isn’t titanium. Now on the first generation of 560 and 561s they skeletonized that steel liner until there was only a thin web of steel left, that atleast was abit better.

But now that they are consistantly using nonskeletonized steel liners that sort of pisses me off. Either use a titanium liner or just go with no liner like on the 452. Quit trying to pass these stainless steel plates off under our unsuspecting noses. I have seen well renowned youtube knife reviewers calling these liners titanium totally unaware of their error. In recent videos too!

Dude, I can't begin to tell you how much I actually hate that !@#!@#@ steel liner.

Not trying to sound like a drama queen but I live in Florida and I work for a living, meaning I sweat, in an already incredibly humid environment. Those factors coupled with pocket build up can leave my carry pieces vulnerable to corrosion. Especially when it comes to a liner that I don't have easy access to clean. It drives me CRAZY.

It also doesn't help that I have an otherwise fantastic knife with a premium steel, premium deployment medium, premium collaboration, and premium handle materials save for....the liner.

The stainless. Steel. Liner.

Rant over.

Joking aside, I can't wrap my head around why ZT doesn't work the liner into their price. ZT, if you're reading this, which I know you are, I have zero tolerance for steel liners with my titanium/CF framelock. Tack on another $10 and let's call it a day.

 

[RBid]

They do their best to not mention that their liners are steel as much as possible. Lots of people are surprised to learn it isn’t titanium. Now on the first generation of 560 and 561s they skeletonized that steel liner until there was only a thin web of steel left, that atleast was abit better.

But now that they are consistantly using nonskeletonized steel liners that sort of pisses me off. Either use a titanium liner or just go with no liner like on the 452. Quit trying to pass these stainless steel plates off under our unsuspecting noses. I have seen well renowned youtube knife reviewers calling these liners titanium totally unaware of their error. In recent videos too!

I don’t think they’re trying to pass them off, or slip them by. I think ZT is aware that the number of consumers whose buying decisions are determined by such things is insignificant. As enthusiasts, we’re really, really good at making a big deal out of a tiny detail.

 

[Lapedog]

I don’t think they’re trying to pass them off, or slip them by. I think ZT is aware that the number of consumers whose buying decisions are determined by such things is insignificant. As enthusiasts, we’re really, really good at making a big deal out of a tiny detail.

Let’s put it this way. They certainly aren’t making a point out of letting their customers know about it. More than once I have lifted the composite scale off to see rust has developed between the liner and scale.

 

[ChazzyP]

They do their best to not mention that their liners are steel as much as possible. Lots of people are surprised to learn it isn’t titanium. Now on the first generation of 560 and 561s they skeletonized that steel liner until there was only a thin web of steel left, that atleast was abit better.

But now that they are consistantly using nonskeletonized steel liners that sort of pisses me off. Either use a titanium liner or just go with no liner like on the 452. Quit trying to pass these stainless steel plates off under our unsuspecting noses. I have seen well renowned youtube knife reviewers calling these liners titanium totally unaware of their error. In recent videos too!

I'm a little confused by this "steel liner" thing, Lapedog. Going to the BHQ site, as they have pretty much all the specs listed for any given knife, the "Frame/Liner" line for the 560, 561, 562, and 452 all indicate titanium as the material. Is what you're referring to the liner on show side under the G10 or CF scale? Would just that side be steel and the lock-side Ti? Does BHQ have it all partially or completely wrong?

Back closer to the topic, I've always felt that ZTs were well-made and offered good quality, F&F, etc at their price-points. I've bought 8 or so and kept 5. They're OK, but don't really speak to me, much as Sebenzas don't speak to our OP. ZTs are solid production knives--like BMs or Spydies as others have noted--but in a totally different class than CRKs. There's a big jump in quality from production knives to mid-techs. To me, the difference, aside from design, materials, etc, is that the former are assembled while the latter are individually fitted. I do like and carry my production knives, but my CRKs, RHKs, Shiros, and other mid-techs are my true users. To me, they're just way better knives.

 

[craytab]

I'm a little confused by this "steel liner" thing, Lapedog. Going to the BHQ site, as they have pretty much all the specs listed for any given knife, the "Frame/Liner" line for the 560, 561, 562, and 452 all indicate titanium as the material. Is what you're referring to the liner on show side under the G10 or CF scale? Would just that side be steel and the lock-side Ti? Does BHQ have it all partially or completely wrong?

Back closer to the topic, I've always felt that ZTs were well-made and offered good quality, F&F, etc at their price-points. I've bought 8 or so and kept 5. They're OK, but don't really speak to me, much as Sebenzas don't speak to our OP. ZTs are solid production knives--like BMs or Spydies as others have noted--but in a totally different class than CRKs. There's a big jump in quality from production knives to mid-techs. To me, the difference, aside from design, materials, etc, is that the former are assembled while the latter are individually fitted. I do like and carry my production knives, but my CRKs, RHKs, Shiros, and other mid-techs are my true users. To me, they're just way better knives.

The frame lock side on those knives is ti. If they have a liner on the presentation side it is steel. My 0560 is milled quite nicely. Even though it is steel I'd rather have it milled that way than full ti. Shows a bit of care and attention to detail. The fact that the 0562 is steel and not milled is a shame. Doesn't bother me that much though. If it were ti and or milled the final cost to us would be more than $10. If rust is a problem, take it apart and wax it. There are ways to solve that problem that will cost far less than what zt will charge for doing it. Not sure getting pissed, or filled with hate, or driven crazy is the proper response. They're just knives.

That said, I would like to see no liner like the 0452.

 

[marrenmiller]

They do their best to not mention that their liners are steel as much as possible. Lots of people are surprised to learn it isn’t titanium. Now on the first generation of 560 and 561s they skeletonized that steel liner until there was only a thin web of steel left, that atleast was abit better.

But now that they are consistantly using nonskeletonized steel liners that sort of pisses me off. Either use a titanium liner or just go with no liner like on the 452. Quit trying to pass these stainless steel plates off under our unsuspecting noses. I have seen well renowned youtube knife reviewers calling these liners titanium totally unaware of their error. In recent videos too!

Steel liners are significantly stiffer than titanium liners though, which might be why they gravitate towards it. Aside from the potential to corrode, I think stiffening up the frame of a knife with a lock design that can often slip open might be a decent idea.

 

[Lapedog]

I'm a little confused by this "steel liner" thing, Lapedog. Going to the BHQ site, as they have pretty much all the specs listed for any given knife, the "Frame/Liner" line for the 560, 561, 562, and 452 all indicate titanium as the material. Is what you're referring to the liner on show side under the G10 or CF scale? Would just that side be steel and the lock-side Ti? Does BHQ have it all partially or completely wrong?

Back closer to the topic, I've always felt that ZTs were well-made and offered good quality, F&F, etc at their price-points. I've bought 8 or so and kept 5. They're OK, but don't really speak to me, much as Sebenzas don't speak to our OP. ZTs are solid production knives--like BMs or Spydies as others have noted--but in a totally different class than CRKs. There's a big jump in quality from production knives to mid-techs. To me, the difference, aside from design, materials, etc, is that the former are assembled while the latter are individually fitted. I do like and carry my production knives, but my CRKs, RHKs, Shiros, and other mid-techs are my true users. To me, they're just way better knives.

The lock side is titanium. I’m talking about the liner that goes under the g10 scale

 

[Lapedog]

Steel liners are significantly stiffer than titanium liners though, which might be why they gravitate towards it. Aside from the potential to corrode, I think stiffening up the frame of a knife with a lock design that can often slip open might be a decent idea.

I don’t know. Cf and g10 are pretty stiff too. There are lots if framelocks that have no liners under the scale. The knives are already stiff enough without a liner for folder tasks.

 

[RBid]

Back closer to the topic, I've always felt that ZTs were well-made and offered good quality, F&F, etc at their price-points. I've bought 8 or so and kept 5. They're OK, but don't really speak to me, much as Sebenzas don't speak to our OP. ZTs are solid production knives--like BMs or Spydies as others have noted--but in a totally different class than CRKs. There's a big jump in quality from production knives to mid-techs. To me, the difference, aside from design, materials, etc, is that the former are assembled while the latter are individually fitted. I do like and carry my production knives, but my CRKs, RHKs, Shiros, and other mid-techs are my true users. To me, they're just way better knives.

I think it’s important to remember that “better” is used subjectively here. We all buy these things largely because of what speaks to each of us, as you’ve alluded to, and I love that we have so many cool options to choose from.

As far as being objectively better users, it’s very easy to make a case for a ZT 0609 or even a 0566 being better users in many contexts than an XM-18. This isn’t me saying, “HAY YOO GUSY! ZEE TEA IZ A BETS NIFE INNA HOLE WIRLT EN YOO SHUD ONLEE GET A ZEE TEA!!!” It’s every bit as easy to make a case for a Rat 1 in D2 being a better user than the ZT, Hinderer, or CRK.

Naturally, ChazzyP, I don’t think we’re disagreeing on that. I think we’re probably very much in alignment there, and would happily high five and enthusiastically applaud each other’s likes if we ran into each other in the world. My reply was more for providing perspective if newer posters read the thread. It also helps keep me grounded, and connected to the truth that I didn’t buy a TiSpine or Microtech DOC because they’re actually better users than a Rat 1. I got them because they make me grin ear to ear.

 

[ChazzyP]

Thanks, Lapedog for clearing up that it's just the under-scale liner that's steel on the knives in question and BHQ has it at least partially wrong in their specs. I too would prefer to see an all CF side on my 0562, craytab , like on my 0452, the aftermarket scale on my 0450, or the show side on my Shiro 111, the lock side being CF with with a housed Ti liner. Hati's also have all composite presentation sides of CF, G10, Alutex, or other material with no apparent diminishment in strength. 'Twould seem such construction would be simpler and, by turn, more economical.

 

[ChazzyP]

I think it’s important to remember that “better” is used subjectively here. We all buy these things largely because of what speaks to each of us, as you’ve alluded to, and I love that we have so many cool options to choose from.

As far as being objectively better users, it’s very easy to make a case for a ZT 0609 or even a 0566 being better users in many contexts than an XM-18. This isn’t me saying, “HAY YOO GUSY! ZEE TEA IZ A BETS NIFE INNA HOLE WIRLT EN YOO SHUD ONLEE GET A ZEE TEA!!!” It’s every bit as easy to make a case for a Rat 1 in D2 being a better user than the ZT, Hinderer, or CRK.

Naturally, ChazzyP, I don’t think we’re disagreeing on that. I think we’re probably very much in alignment there, and would happily high five and enthusiastically applaud each other’s likes if we ran into each other in the world. My reply was more for providing perspective if newer posters read the thread. It also helps keep me grounded, and connected to the truth that I didn’t buy a TiSpine or Microtech DOC because they’re actually better users than a Rat 1. I got them because they make me grin ear to ear.

No disagreement here, RBid, hence my qualification, "To me...."

In most of my day-to-day, work-related use, the 0562 would be a much better choice than any of my Hinderers except perhaps my REK re-ground XM24, which is frankly too damn big for most work in my trade. Honestly, my most used work knife is my Stanley retractable utility, which handles about 98% of what a carpenter needs. My favorite work folders are my CRKs, Shiros, and some of my Spydies as their blade geometry makes them superior cutters and slicers and they take wicked keen edges.

It's all personal and what you like, though, as you could probably sharpen up a gas-station Jarbenza and get it to cut what you needed.

 

[RBid]

No disagreement here, RBid, hence my qualification, "To me...."

In most of my day-to-day, work-related use, the 0562 would be a much better choice than any of my Hinderers except perhaps my REK re-ground XM24, which is frankly too damn big for most work in my trade. Honestly, my most used work knife is my Stanley retractable utility, which handles about 98% of what a carpenter needs. My favorite work folders are my CRKs, Shiros, and some of my Spydies as their blade geometry makes them superior cutters and slicers and they take wicked keen edges.

It's all personal and what you like, though, as you could probably sharpen up a gas-station Jarbenza and get it to cut what you needed.

Indeed. A Jarbenza could probably get me through a good half hour of a busy work day before it needed sharpening

Thank goodness for quality steels.

 

[gdog363]

You’re all going to want to crucify me for saying this, but I believe the Sebenza is one of the most overrated knives of all time. Buy what pleases YOU, and not others.

Just my 2 cents.

 

[RBid]

You’re all going to want to crucify me for saying this, but I believe the Sebenza is one of the most overrated knives of all time. Buy what pleases YOU, and not others.

Just my 2 cents.

Nah, not all of us will respond with acid.

I think Sebenzas are all at once brilliant *and* overrated. There’s no denying the quality, but it’s also evident that CRK isn’t the only maker cranking out extremely good F&F on good users.

 

[ChazzyP]

Nah, not all of us will respond with acid.

I think Sebenzas are all at once brilliant *and* overrated. There’s no denying the quality, but it’s also evident that CRK isn’t the only maker cranking out extremely good F&F on good users.

Your turn of phrase struck a chord as it reminded of something similar I wrote in the OP of the Bears' Den thread--Shirogorov knives "share the seemingly contradictory qualities of being both over-priced and completely worth it."

 

[miso2]

Nice score, OP!

While I appreciate the quality of Sebenza, I do not love it nor use it much.
My other knives cut better and are more fun to play with.

Umnumzaan is different.
I absolutely love the knife without a particular reason.