Western knives

Camillus

Camillus

Joined
Jun 3, 2015
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I have noticed that Western knives often fetch very high prices on the auction site, rivalling brands like Schrade, Queen or GEC, but they rarely get mentioned on this forum. I have often wondered. Can anyone tell me why?
 
The knife I have owned the longest, a Christmas gift from my folks in 1968, is a Western 66 Black Beauty. It’s the only Western knife I owned for many, many years. I think mine came from Montgomery Wards in Rocky Mount NC, the only place I remember seeing a Western Knife in stock until decades later. It‘s a fine knife but I think Western must have been mostly a regional brand until the Coleman and Camillus eras. OH
 
I really don't know why. Is it because they were a smaller company? Not as many made? Here are two recently acquired. One is a Black Beauty the other Montgomery Wards. We used to call it Monkey Wards.
E36E18C0-2F3E-4DD9-8A92-3DD7AD9FAE90.jpeg
 
Old Hunter said:
I think Western must have been mostly a regional brand until the Coleman and Camillus eras
Click to expand...
Sorry. I must humbly disagree. :(

Western was located in Boulder, Colorado.

They sold on both sides of the Mississippi River from the beginnng. I'm not remembering the details, but I think I remember they had a connection to New York somehow, when they were known as Western States Cutlery.

I got my first Western knife (an L66) sometime around 1967 or 1968, in Clinton, Iowa. (I don't remember if at Sears, Grant's, Ward's, J.C. Penny, one of the gun stores, the Tractor Supply, a hardware store, or at Paul's Discount) My last, a "D" date code (1980) L66, in San Bernardino, CA. (at Kmart?)
My step pop had a Western F66 Black Beauty when I met him in 1967 or 1968. I don't know when he bought it, or if he bought it in Clinton or in Davenport, IA., or somewhere in Missouri, while visiting his folks.

I remember seeing ads for Western knives in 'FIELD & STREAM' and 'OUTDOOR LIFE' and the 'SCOUTING' BSA magazines in the 1960's. I think the F66 Black Beauty may have been an "Official" BSA knife in the mid/late 1960's?

They had at least one government/military contract to supply the Demo knife to all branches of the military.
(I was issued a Western made Demo knife by the Army Reserves in 1975. I still have it.)

While not government issue, and not available through the Quartermaster's offce (that I am aware of) the W49 was popular with the troops in WW2, Korea, and Viet Nam.
"During WW2, Western’s production, like most other U.S. industries, was devoted almost 100% to supplying knives to the troops. Western knives were never official government issue, but unit commanders had the leeway to place purchase orders directly with Western to equip their troops." (my how times have changed.) "Western knives were also widely available at the PX or BX for private purchase." (https://www.hwsportsman.net)

Western manufactured knives for other companies as well, such as Sears (Craftsman and JC Higgins brands), Montgomery Wards (Western Field brand), Coast Cutlery, Western Auto, and others. If the old stacked leather handled knife you are looking at has the metal of the tang visible on the back and at the belly of the handle, it is of split tang construction and was made by Western Cutlery.
(https://www.hwsportsman.net)

"Western pretty much owned the" (hunting knife) "market from the mid-30s to about the mid-seventies." (The F/W/L66 being the most popular) (https://www.hwsportsman.net/)

(Opinion) It would be unusual (if not unheard of) for a company like Coleman to purchase a unknown regional brand sold only in one or two states and take it national. I'm pretty sure that during the Coleman era the knives were still made in Colorado.
I'm thinking Camillus may have made them in-house after they took over.

(Question: Was it Coleman or Camillus that dropped the Western folding knives?)

Growng up in Iowa during the pre-internet days, "CASE" was farm implement company.
I'd never seen nor heard of a Case knife; W.R. or Brothers. (I'm guessing they didn't sell west of the Mississippi River?)
We had the Schrade and family, Utica/Cutmaster, Camillus, Western (mainly hunting/sheath knives), Buck, (((shudder ... gag ...))) "Frost" knife shaped objects (((shudder))), some no name "Made in USA", and a few others, but no WR Case, nor Case Brothers.
I don't remember any Case knife ads in the outdoor/hunting/fishing magaznes, either.
I'm sure they advertsed in the sportsman's magazines ... I suppose none of their offerings were all that memorable or "exciting" to a sub 20 year old ... or the ads were only for certain areas the magazines were distributed, not nation wide?
I don't recall seeing any Case knives for sale after I moved to So. Cali, in 1975, either.
However, that might be because I did 99.8% of my not work related (fabrication welder, later school bus driver, later self employed lawn care, tree trimming, fence construction, & lot cleanup) shopping there at Kmart, and at the weekly Orange Show Swap Meet?
 
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Harvey Platts founded Western in the early 20th century. The Platts family had been making knives in the US and England for generations. Platts' family had been part of the founding of a little-known knife maker named Case, now largely forgotten.

When Harvey Platts came down with Silicosis, he moved the family to Colorado for the dry air.

The prices on The Auction Site? Largely fantasy.

Why the lack of interest in Western knives? I don't know. Knife collectors are fickle?

The interests of Traditional knife collectors have shifted over the past thirty or so years. Go back to the 70s and 80s. Case was king among collectors. Case, Case, Case, and more Case. You had the occasional guy who bought Queen, but most of those guys had to be back in the home by five p.m. Other than that it was all Case, all the time. Case was the word, and the word was Case.

Case.

I was a pitiful fool, and collected Buck (ICKY!!! Get it AWAYYY!) and Western (WHO? I bet you wish you could collect Case!)

Okay, Case, one more time.

Over the past decade or two, the interest in traditional knives has dwindled, and tastes have moved. Case is still around, and the cognoscente gravitate toward GEC. Most collectors tend to clump together, a lot of them thinking that popular equals worth.

Western was a comparatively small company, and they had a limited distribution outside the west under their own name. They sold thousands of knives to farmers and ranchers, guys who used knives and appreciated a well made, no frills tool that would last for generations. It's a rare thing to find minty Western knives from the thirties through the fifties. Earlier knives in great condition are very rare.

As was mentioned earlier, Western also made knives under different brand names. Westmark was their own bargain brand. They made a lot of Craftsman knives. There were a lot of Case (gulp!) collaborations.

If you want to learn more, search out a book titled The Knife Makers Who Went West. There's also a thread running here called "Go West Young Man" with lots of knives.

A few old Westerns:

https://imgur.com/Uk1ygKR
 
Why not much coverage of Westerns here, only thing I can think of is, well... I just don't know. :)

Here's a (pre 1950 L48) Western-Bird and Trout that I wanted because it's smaller than the L36 that has served me so well since it was purchased new in 1973.
GE2FaCh.jpg
 
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When "Western States" first moved to Colorado, they had their folders made by others. This one looks like a Utica-made knife by comparing the punch design.Western Etch 4.jpg
They eventually dropped their folders, became "Western" and concentrated on FBs !!
 
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Western wasn't always fork-tail-tanged, by the way. They invented the forked tang and H-washers at some point to keep the washers from splitting over swollen rust. I have an earlier Westmark that did just that.
I wonder if they weren't fancy and expensive enough in their day to be collected. Not being fancy and expensive might be a reason they're not seen much here?
They were also slow to go stainless. I remember my scout knife had a protective lacquer on the blade, which they said would peel off. (And then what?) That might have depressed their popularity in olden times; it of course wouldn't hurt them here.
 
My 1968 Western F66 Black Beauty and its third sheath (not Western issue but pretty close to the original). Cleaning a deer with the F66 about four years ago. The lacquer coating was factory applied, part of it is still on my knife near the top of the blade at the spine after all these years. OH
Western-L66-Black-Beauty-ca-1966.jpg

Colonels-deer-Western-F66-11-30-17.jpg
 
The only Western Brand pocketknife I can ever remember seeing for sale (new at retail) in eastern NC. I bought it at a bow hunters shop in Dunn NC about 8 or 9 years ago. You can easily tell it’s a Camillus pocketknife with a different brand name stamped on the tang. OH
Western-WD237-Premium-Stockman.jpg
 
I recently acquired a 691 trapper that would compare well with any other trapper on the market. No issues with F/F, takes a great edge and holds it well for 1095, half stops. I'm very impressed with it.
 
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