Westrn MArtial Arts?

DannyinJapan

DannyinJapan

Joined
Oct 9, 2003
Messages
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I have been looking at western martial arts websites.
(perhaps not a fair view, after all, its just a web page, not a person)

If anybody knows, tell me:

Why do the techniques discussed seem so static in regards to footwork?
 
What footwork exactly seems static to you, in boxing or in wrestling? (hint: prepare for flames ;) ) BTW, western martial arts have proven themselves more than worthy in Mixed Martial Arts competitions.
 
well, i was looking at a technique on a website, and the only things they described were arm and weapon movements and in the pictures you could see that their feet had not moved.
At least it appeared that way.

Where I come from ,that is not good.
Am I wrong about that ? (were the pics/description inaccurate?)
 
I have no idea which technique you are talking about - or which martial art, for that matter. Traditionally, when you mention western MA people tend to think about boxing, wrestling, and fencing, all of which greatly emphausize footwork. Of course, there are younger developments - like extremelly effective bjj (brazilian jiu-jutsu), or israeli krav-maga which is advertised as simple and effective for streets (not as much for competitions) Then of course, there are always "masters" who claim to be the only survived adepts of super-druper-secret art of bending spoons with their minds, but usually those fade away rather quickly. What site did you go to?
 
Danny,

I don't know how to define "western", as in US, Europe, Greek etc.
I don't know if you can find anything like this on the web, but one quality art I found over the years was Irish/Celtic wrestling. It's pretty old, Lancashire wrestling has some interesting stuff (sorry, I know I mispelled someone's home town there). Some of these arts are pretty savvy about body positioning, but they are hard to find.

David
 
samoand said:
flames ;) ) BTW, western martial arts have proven themselves more than worthy in Mixed Martial Arts competitions.
Click to expand...

No, in MMA competitions the fighters use a lot of arts that come from Asia...

Nearly every single striking move used is present in Thailand's Muay Thai, including boxing techniques.

Jiu-jitsu gave rise to Brazilian jiu-jitsu, which is used pretty often too.

Western arts = more worthy? I don't think so. Even the wrestlers have to learn how to take and give leg kicks and stuff from Eastern martial arts.
 
Danny,
Here's a link from that site which will show you more of the footwork used than the old illustrations they put up as historical reference:
http://www.geocities.com/glendoyle/bata/index.html#contents

If you like old illustrations :) ; you might enjoy the photos section at this site about a very footwork intensive Western martial art:
http://www.bridgemansavate.com/

Chosticks,
I just wanted to point out Samoand wrote "more than worthy" (as in useful)
not "more worthy" (as in superior).

Regards to all,
Greg
 
In ching-chang-pow, my branch at least, we stand straight to the target with a pistol, and bladed to the right with a longarm, although the trend is becoming more squared up with the longarm too. :D :p
 
Ripper said:
Danny,
Here's a link from that site which will show you more of the footwork used than the old illustrations they put up as historical reference:
http://www.geocities.com/glendoyle/bata/index.html#contents

If you like old illustrations :) ; you might enjoy the photos section at this site about a very footwork intensive Western martial art:
http://www.bridgemansavate.com/

Chosticks,
I just wanted to point out Samoand wrote "more than worthy" (as in useful)
not "more worthy" (as in superior).

Regards to all,
Greg
Click to expand...

Oh, my bad. :) Maybe having 4-5 netscape windows open and jumping from screen to screen isn't a good thing sometimes.. hehe
 
Well, I meant the martial arts I never heard of until recently.
Like "english martial arts" or "irish martial arts" or "celtic martial arts"

Too many of them seem to be kung fu guys who open up a school and call it something "european"

I will listen attentively to the first Westen martial arts guy who can show me:
a. he knows a martial art
b. he has NEVER (that means never) studied an asian martial art form nor borrowed a single idea from an asian martial art.

I am not putting anybody down. Please dont misunderstand me.
I am just saying I want to meet a pureblood.
 
Hi Danny
well I'm no pureblood regarding Asian martial arts. Judo, Hapkido and Goju-ryu
karate have all been part of the deal. Since I "saw the light" i ahve become aquainted with Talhoffer, Capo Ferro, George Silver and any number of others. None of these are still living and the work of researching and interpreting what we have left of our Western Martial Heritage is on going. Many of the techniques bear striking resemblences to Asian styles. Most of this is simply parallel development and no eastern influence is present. Do some searches. The footwork issue is mainly down to the style of the artists doing the renditions, Tower manuscript I33 (the oldest yet found) is a prime example, lovely pictures of technique, nil on the footwork. Flos Duellatorum(sp) on the other hand shows and describes hand and foot movement.
Phil
 
I assumed parallels would exist.
that has to happen.
I am just curious as to how many "teachers" of the "WMA" are "purebloods"
Does it matter to WMA enthusiasts?
This is all curiosity, no judgments implied.
 
to Chopsticks
> No, in MMA competitions the fighters use a lot of arts that come from Asia...
I never really said the opposite.

>Nearly every single striking move used is present in Thailand's Muay Thai, including boxing techniques.
so? "is present" doesn't mean much, does it? Thai boxing is a very effective style, but it's a completely different breed from western boxing.

>Jiu-jitsu gave rise to Brazilian jiu-jitsu, which is used pretty often too.
so? How much of original jiu-jitsu is actually used in MMA? How well would a pure JJ practitioner fair in an NHB fight?

>Western arts = more worthy?
I never worded it this way - the word "more" is your illusion.

>I don't think so. Even the wrestlers have to learn how to take and give leg kicks and stuff from Eastern martial arts.
By the way, you are not even completely accurate here: wrestlers don't really do it the same way. Their objective is different - to close in.

Please. In the original post I didn't even mean to talk down Eastern MA-s - I didn't mention them at all, and no comparison was supposed to be implied. However - thanks to you - I moderately feel like doing so now: west may not have much in terms of quantity, but at least I can't think of a western art that lost it's aura and got humiliated in octagon - while I can certainly name few eastern arts that did exactly that. Yes, there are thai boxing, judo, and kyokushinkai - all worthy taking up. There are also fancy styles of karate and kung-fu, all with long, hardly pronounced names, and practicioners who got beaten up by ex-bodybilders with beer bellies.

Wax in, wax out, grasshopper.
 
lets stay on the path, brothers.
Is there a "pure" western martial art in existence ?
A European fighting school that uses unarmed and armed techniques and has no connections with Asian martial arts?
 
DannyinJapan said:
lets stay on the path, brothers.
Is there a "pure" western martial art in existence ?
A European fighting school that uses unarmed and armed techniques and has no connections with Asian martial arts?
Click to expand...

There is Shin Kicking

and

wrestling

Put together you have a nasty combo called the Devon Style.
 
Danny,

The late Dr. Tim Goehegan was well versed in Irish & Celtic wrestling. Everything he did was very effective. Robert Smith wrote about him in Martial Musings. I have a friend that was pretty close to him, and studied his system. If you want me to put you in touch with him via email, send me an email.
 
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