Westrn MArtial Arts?

Hi Danny
Well this has got interesting, I would say that if you were looking for the best example of a fully intergrated Western Martial System then Dei Libri's Flos Duellatorum is it.Covers most of the weapons current at the time, in and out of armour. Also various hand and foot combinations, some of which could have come out of any Asian school. The name , by the way, means Flower Of Battle. Many of the other texts mentioned by Keith cover similar material, but none, in my opinion, do it in such an extensive and comprehensive fashion. Most of the short version can be found online(pisani version???) but the fullest text (the Getty) is in productionboth translated and interpretd, I've been waiting several years for this one. If this thread is locked contact me offline for more info.
regards
Phil
 
DannyinJapan said:
I will listen attentively to the first Westen martial arts guy who can show me:
a. he knows a martial art
b. he has NEVER (that means never) studied an asian martial art form nor borrowed a single idea from an asian martial art.

I am not putting anybody down. Please dont misunderstand me.
I am just saying I want to meet a pureblood.
Click to expand...

That'd be me Danny...my school has a few simple principles:

1. Carry more ammo than you think you'll need, then throw in one more magazine.
2. If you can engage the target, so can he.
3. Never draw your knife during a gun fight.
4. Shoot first and more accurately than your opponent.
5. There is no requirement to fire a warning shot, nor to announce your intention to shoot, nor even let your opponent know he is in a fight.
6. Always carry a back up, and a backup for your backup.
7. A hit from a .22 is better than a miss with a cannon.
8. There is no second place winner.
9. You get no points for style.
10. It's better to be tried by twelve than carried by six.

If you have any questions on this western art, please feel free to ask.
 
From what I know, boxing and wrestling as we know it have evolved and split off from the same WMA known as Pancrase...

FMA has evolved and perfected WMA from what they have encountered from the spanish...

I also heard that Pancrase or at least forms of it would have been used by Medieval Knights...
 
From the Swiss-

Crossbow(william tell)
Rolling large rocks downhill upon invading Austrians.(perhaps fits into crew served weapons?) :)

If we want to survive armed encounters today, how about various western firearms techniques? They seem pretty much distinct from EMA.

Musashi wrote about the effectiveness of firearms, but their limitations in his day did not make them as viable as they are now. Even if one can not use firearms, a study of how they are used could give one some ideas about how to survive an encouter with someone so armed.

Lots of things to think about...

Cover/concealment
camo
body armor
marksmanship
movement in buildings/outdoors
communications
dealing with automobiles...

probably much more too.

Carlos Hathcock=effective WMA

Danny, have you ever read about him? I believe you might find some of his exploits interesting.

Tom
 
I thought these links might be useful.


http://perso.club-internet.fr/jfgilles/escrime/bibliotheque/catalogue_traites.html ( Huge list )

http://mywebpage.netscape.com/neohemas/neohemas.html ( Bata.)

http://www.alliancemartialarts.com/axe.html ( Axe Fighting )

http://johnwhurley.com/hurleyframeset-2.html ( Stick )

http://fight.sphosting.com/docherty.html ( Staff )

http://www.thehaca.com/manuals.htm ( Manuals )

Also if you do a search for Bata, alot of groups and clubs will come up.

There is also http://www.the-exiles.org/ They have some manuals and a forum for WMA.

I took most of these links from www.axeforum.com They are a good group, with a decent number of WM artists.

Just to throw in my 2 cents, I think it has a lot more to do with the person as opposed to the art. Nice chatting with you all again.

Edited to fix The Exiles link, sorry about that guys.
- D
 
vampire, i think you sent us the wrong links.
Yours are all gay and lesbian support group websites...
 
I'm personally a fan of the Japanese styles, so i appreciate the need to move around in fighting. That said, a couple of situations where knowing how to fight without moving your feet is adventitious are- 1. on uneven or slippery terrain, 2. when backed into a corner or alley (although you want to slip away when possible), 3. when stuck in a prison cell with two guys who are trying to be overly friendly.
 
old school keichu do (up to 1990 (archive tape style))
hawaiin forms

keichu do was formed in luisianna, outside the influence/study of western martial arts (that was a specific aspect of its developement - that eastern forms would not be studied and specifically incorperated). there are "judo" throws present, but there are only so many ways to throw a guy. the archive tapes have soke karl marx in them, and i would say that you should pretty well avoid the newer tapes, and anything of the newer style. its stepped away from the street form that it was made to be, do to several unfortunate, but possible inevitable factors. its a very effective art, one that is good for fighting larger apponents, and excellent for women. not because it caters to cheap shots like ball kicking (not really cheap in a fight if you can pull it off, but you get my drift), but because it maximizes your bodies potential.

and hawaii was completely isolated in every way shape and form for the majority if not their entire history until very very recently. their fighting arts had no way of being influenced by easter forms in their developement. they are a very effective and brutal form, and have a lot of impressive aspects to them.
 
There is a French martial art called Savate that Bruce Lee referrs to in some of his writings.

It is a turn of the century age kickboxing system. Its stances, though similar to boxing, have a lot of emphasis on having bare knuckles (ie the bulk of gloves mean ots harder to force a punch through a close gaurd) so the drawings i've seen show these smart guys with waxed moustaces holding their fists in quite a comical fashion.
 
Danny,

I checked them all and the only one that didn't work was the link to the exiles, which I wasn't sure of anyway and now I've fixed it.

- D
 
Well, let's not forget the Scottish martial art: F'kyu. But it's mostly headbutting and then kicking people while they're on the ground. :D (Mike Myers, "So I Married an Axe Murderer")

(ducks, dodges and dons flame-retardant suit...)
 
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