Kevin, i hope you read the part in my post about where i agreed with you. this post and my question was not to antagonize you.
if it caused you frustration my apologies
jake
Well I have some time before returning to the shop between temper cycles because what I am doing today is
heat treating, and I am not even using a quench oil at all, imagine that!
No Crisco, no mineral oil, no ATF and no Parks #50 either! Instead the blades are going into a ternary nitrite/nitrate salt mixture held at 420F. and since I chose my steels carefully it works just fine!
In fact it works better than fine; I think it is just peachy!:thumbup:
Jake, you dont owe me any apology, just as the point I wished to stress was that you dont owe it to me to use any particular quenchant. We all owe it to ourselves to get good information and determine what will work best for us based on real facts and not anybodys claims of what will work just fine. I understood the spirit of your inquiry and the title of the thread poses a damned good question, I am simply astounded at how the exact same type of conversations and explanations will be given every time. No matter how much information is heaped in front of folks so many will still just chant the same simplistic points like they have their fingers in their ears and need to drown out any sound that could get by their mantra.
I could list every fact in every book ever written on the topic by every industry that has thermally treated metals, and it would still not carry as much weight with some folks as magazine picture of their favorite bladesmith doing God knows what, or some campy urban myth about how ancient smiths wasted good slaves to make crappy blades. Am I the only one who finds that disturbing? You know Conans dad also quenched swords in snow- really I saw it with my own two eyes!
This must be definitive, since here is a picture of a celeb practicing mythological ancient techniques.
Since everybody is entitled to an opinion and you asked for anybodys who wanted to offer, here is my take on it works just fine. It is another way of saying good enough. Most every time I have seen it used it was a cop out. It was an excuse to avoid facing that there could be a more effective approach because acknowledging that possibility felt like admitting that what had been used may not have been the best. And I have yet to talk to anybody who has tried a well formulated quenchant, and used it properly, who would consider settling for less again.
The racing team with the fastest car does not automatically win, it is indeed the team that does everything the best they can that takes the checkered flag. I cannot imagine any racing team that would say that since they have the best engine, the best crew, and the best driver that they can then settle for any tires they picked up at the local Discount shop. The guys who consistently win races accept no corner cutting and realize that every edge they can get, no matter how minor, may make the difference. I doubt many teams who accept any aspect as just good enough would even survive in the sport very long.
However my tire analogy is flawed in that heat treatment is not the tires but the engine of a blade. Many things can be wrong with a blade and still be compensated for, edges can be reshaped, handles can be changed etc
but if the heat treat isnt the best it can be the blade will never be the best it can be. If there is one place to spare no expense and cut no corners the heat treatment is it. But as long as what our smith idols say, or how many of those Dakota women we can shave remains as our highest criteria then just fine will always be good enough.
Now if ever there was a thread worthy of hijacking this may be it, so lets get thoroughly engrossed in the complexities if turkey quenching! :thumbup:
