What’s the point of these metals that hold an edge 3 times longer if it’s 5 times longer to sharpen.

Well, I adjusted ease of sharpening by upgrading to better suited stones that is comparable to the time it takes me to sharpen my knives. I’m by no means a top notch sharpening guru, but once I learned that it makes a difference, it made things a lot better. If my knife has better edge retention because of the steel, that means I don’t have to sharpen it near as often. In my mind, that means with fewer sharpening, I’m not removing steel as often resulting in longer blade life.
 
DeadboxHero said:
Well, until that edge goes as smooth as a babies bottom with light use versus continuing the cut without the edge slipping.

Or when you're beating your head against the wall using ceramic which is not shaping the MC carbides.

Or when the steel starts reacting when cutting things with different acidity or even reacting with hand oils and sweat.

Or when you notice that one material has a higher elastic limit at the edge and another material has more edge plasticity which happens sooner with less force when pushing to failure.

Otherwise yeah, can't tell the difference.
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Says the 0.1% guy ! ;)

Nah ... even I can tell , with knives I use and sharpen a lot , that are very different ER .

Also , I have some that will patina very easy and some not at all . Pretty obvious in use .
 
I like high wear resistance steels because I can rely on them to get me through the day, usually many many days before needing sharpening. But they never leave me high and dry mid day with a dull worn out edge. I pick when it's time to sharpen, not the knife. I like tool steels to keep the toughness up, use diamonds to sharpen. Doesn't take too long to sharpen. To me the high performance is worth any extra time sharpening.
But really, 5 times sharpening for a few minutes or once for 10 minutes, it adds up to the same time either way right?
I agree with Ajack 60, your also getting a longer lasting knife, which is nice when purchasing expensive knives, but then again your paying more for it too. Like buying cheap tires that'll last 30k miles or paying more for them high mileage michelins
 
knarfeng said:
Rule of thumb: If you want something to cut something else, then the thing doing the cutting needs to be harder than the thing being cut.
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I think you have brought the truth to the surface in my case : I'm not addicted to knives and the better alloys . . . I'm addicted to sharpening stones and sharpening gear and I keep looking for more challenging stuff to sharpen !
🙂

seriously though I have been slowly realizing the tool steels that really please me ; easily debured and stay closer to a hair popping edge rather than diving to a "" working edge"" in short order are the alloys with significant tungsten. Sure the vanadium forms carbides with the tungsten that allows the tungsten to contribute to the edge rather than JUST handle red heat when in a power tool tool bit but . . . the higher vanadium and little or no tungsten alloys tend to disappoint me by getting less than hair popping quick . . . but at least I can saw away at stuff with them for like . . . weeks.

. . .oh wait . . .one cannot tell the alloys apart by just USING them . . . what am I saying ? ? ?
I must have been dreaming.

I can't wait to be hyped and conned into another designer / fad knife steel.
 
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Ironbut said:
With knives, like most things, there's a point of diminishing returns. This dumb thing cost $17 new, it's really good at cutting stuff, and sharpens easily. Nothing else is needed. But that doesn't stop me from buying what I want.
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I'm not arguing with what you said. I respect the heat treat of these for their tuffness as I have said over the years.

One example I want to present to the doubters for comparison is this :
There is a some what precision task I use my pocket knife for at work that proves the case for high alloy tool steel with a more , shall we say , fragile / high hardness heat treat and that is paring / trimming / deflashing hard rubber that tends to have high wear additives in it and occasionally dust on the surface.

Using a basic knife steel : Opinel, Swiss Army even Buck 440C, what have you , I get from a few cuts to , a day out of those (not continuous all day just a few units of work).

With a lowly old middle tere alloy , like my fave M4 , I can go weeks of the same couple of jobs a day scenario. AND the level of control and the quality of the surface / left after a cut remains high.

Bottom line : Me likey better blade alloys.
 
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I have no problem sharpening the super steels with diamond stones on a TSprof K03 Pro
I just recently bought a number of Spydercos in a wide collection of super steels to play with and see which stand out to me, S90V, Rex 45, Rex121, Maxamet,15V, K390,Cruwear, M390/204P and Magnacut
 
What in the Wide, Wide World of Sports is a-going on here?

I sense danger on the horizon. Just sayin'.
 
knarfeng said:
A2 would do it. A2 contains chromium carbides. Chromium carbides are harder than an Arkansas stone (Washita stone).

crushing the carbides instead of cleanly cleaving them. So it takes longer and your results are imperfect.
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Backing up your statement.

A micrograph of a 1.4116 steel factory edge, a large chromium carbide was pulverized by softer abrasive near the apex. A "comet tail" can be observed behind the carbide indicating the harder carbide prevented wear of the matrix behind it.

OeZ1FXU.jpeg



This edge is still sharp enough to be considered sharp by many folks in use but the sharpness will evaporate quickly since the edge is stressed; the cracks were the chromium carbide was pulverized can continue to grow.


So we'll have a guy say he can get the steel sharp and he doesn't need to match abrasive to steel but then the same person will complain the steel doesn't hold a sharp edge, it's quite maddening.
 
Kotkin said:
Even at 5 times longer I can’t get it as sharp as Nitro V or Magna cut.
I hate M390.
We have advertising and 90 percent videos that says keeping and edge is the most important thing.
We have all these videos of guys cutting rope and timing it till it goes dull but no timing of length of sharpening???
A combat vet who teaches Navy Seals told me he wants ease of sharpening and a steel that won’t break.
He said nothing of edge retention.
Who decided that edge retention is more important than ease of sharpening.
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You can just occasionally touch up a hard steel and not sharpen it as often. I don't want to sharpen my work knife every other day.

Also, every friend I have in the military is happy to use whatever knife they are issued or pick up cheap in the PX. They are not in any way experts on knives or their care.
 
navman said:
I regularly make knives in S90V, a top competitor in the edge holding arena, with professional heat treat done by Peters' and a thin behind the edge geometry. It takes me no longer to sharpen S90V than it does, say, 3V, VG10...or any other steel for that matter. If you are attempting to use older wet stones, such as Arkansas stone, yeah it will take you longer and the edge will not be what you want. but even an inexpensive diamond stone (like Smiths from Lowes or Home Depot) will get the job done quickly and easily. Of course the better quality the stone or sharpening system, the quicker you can obtain an edge.

I'll give you a quick vignette as to why I prefer high edge holding over ease of sharpening (although you can have both). I make hunting and skinning knives. several of these have ended up on hunts in Spain, Alaska, Canada, here in the US and down in Africa (for reference these were made from S110V and/or S90V). Without exception, each knife, wielded by an experienced hunter who knows how to process game effectively and how to use a knife properly, would process 3-4 animals without a noticeable loss of cutting ability. When processing big game, having to stop to sharpen a knife every 20 minutes eats up more time than they would like, causing them to spend more time in the field and less time back at camp. Also, when it comes to certain game (boar and hogs come to mind) the hair contains dirt that WILL abrade an edge very quickly. Having a high wear resistant edge that can effectively cut those hides without having to stop is a benefit.

I had one hunter, a fellow Sailor and former EOD tech, tell me he was able to process seven (7) game animals while on safari in Mozambique, this included some from other hunters who were having to stop to sharpen their knives every 30 minutes or so. He seemed impressed. His side hustle was arranging game hunts and outings in Spain, he knows a thing or two, because he's seen a thing or two.
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Very much this. When I am processing a deer or quartering something bigger to haul out and my hands are freezing and the sun is going down, I don't want to have to stop and sharpen a knife.
 
I use a 1095 or sk5 knife all day in the woods and sharpen at the end of the day... I've never had ti sharpen every 20 minutes like some guys here are saying. Thats ridiculous.

Hiw many guys used to skin an entire deer with a buck 110? And that's what... 420 steel?

That sounds like the emperors new clothes.
 
snow and steel said:
I use a 1095 or sk5 knife all day in the woods and sharpen at the end of the day... I've never had ti sharpen every 20 minutes like some guys here are saying. Thats ridiculous.

Hiw many guys used to skin an entire deer with a buck 110? And that's what... 420 steel?

That sounds like the emperors new clothes.
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I used to field dress and skin a deer with a 110. Depending on whether it was early or late season and what we dragged it through getting it out, it was dull pretty fast. We also process our own deer which dulls a knife.

Edit: I now use M4, 3v and Magnacut which aren't terrible to sharpen but stay sharp way longer than my old Bucks. Like everything in life, it's a compromise.
 
Someone (crag the beer guy maybe) said they like all steel. I’m in this guys camp. Steel to hard to sharpen? No such thing, buy the belts required for your belt sander, and give it hell. Just don’t make it straw colored. Or do, it’s your knife, not mine. 😉
 
DeadboxHero said:
Sharpening technique plays a huge role in the sharpness the knife can achieve followed by the abrasive type and quality.

For the knife itself, geometry is a HUGE factor followed by heat treatment.

A blade that's too thick with a poor microstructure from lackadaisical heat treatment and processing will not sharpen as well even with good technique and abrasives.

Unfortunately, the different heat treatments and geometries don't have labels and names like the steel does, so often it's the steel that gets the blame.

"Says M390 on the blades that must be why"

Nah.
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I don't believe I've ever seen the word "lackadaisical" spelled out before. How strange.
 
vltor17 said:
He even spelled and used it correctly!! As well as other big words. He definitely must be a plant, here to spy. 🥸
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Big brown has an all around impressive brain (hand eye coordination too). I used to watch him review Malanika puukkos back in the day, which led him toward convincing Danijel to use supersteels, which deepened his own interest in steel composition, which led him into knifemaking and becoming a master of heat treating... and look at him now, all fancy with his spyderco collabs! Hard worked and well earned ;)

 
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