What about 420J2 stainless steel?

Discussion in 'General Knife Discussion' started by Zeasor, Feb 19, 2008.

  1. Confederate

    Confederate

    Sep 5, 2005
    Yes, AUS6, by CRKT, can be pretty awful. But I have at least three 440A knives by Cold Steel that are as sharp as a well honed razor. It's not great, but I'd take it over a lot of CRKT's AUS8A blades, any day!
     
  2. SuroK

    SuroK

    174
    Nov 3, 2007
    my M16 has the 420J2 liners but im trying to source some titanium ones to replace them
     
  3. 3Guardsmen

    3Guardsmen

    Mar 16, 2005
    According to CRKT's steel chart:http://www.crkt.com/steelfct.html, "420J2" and "3Cr13" are identical in their properties. CRKT began using 420J2 as a blade steel right around the time that they began transitioning some of their manufacturing from Taiwan to China. I have to wonder, since the Chinese, according to Spyderco's Sal Glesser, referred to their "8Cr13MoV" as "440C," if they also referred to their "3Cr13" as "420J2," since the designation is better known, thereby causing some of the confusion about 420J2's properties.

    Regards,
    3G
     
  4. SuroK

    SuroK

    174
    Nov 3, 2007
    have they changed from taiwan to china :bad news for them. i dont even like aus8 anymore
     
  5. HoB

    HoB

    May 12, 2004
    I know this wasn't the original question, but since both steels have been mentioned in this thread before: My personal experiences with Spyderco's AUS6 have been far superior to my experiences with Buck's 420HC, in fact they have been quite good.
    Just my $0.02
     
  6. SuroK

    SuroK

    174
    Nov 3, 2007
    i was thinking about the buck 889 strider thing, but 420HC seems pretty poor. and i expect at least 154cm or better on knives that i buy. and i cant justify 400 for a real strider yet(seeing is i never really use my knives anyway..)
     
  7. Iliketantos

    Iliketantos

    10
    May 16, 2009
    Sorry all to necro this thread but I've been lookin at the SOG Vulcan Tanto. It's a san mai steel that uses VG-10 for the core and 420J2 as a laminate, including on the cutting edge according to sog. What I can't figure out is why the hell you would use an inferior steel in terms of edge retention on a knife that's considered to be "tactical". Can you guys offer me any insight on that? Thanks.
     
  8. Phil Elmore

    Phil Elmore

    Feb 28, 2002
    I have no problem with 420J2 in a light- to medium-duty blade. It resists rust well, as has been said, and while it doesn't hold an edge that well, it resharpens very easily and will take a keen edge when it is honed. It may be "low end," and I know a lot of knife owners like to crap all over it, but it's really perfectly functional if you understand what you can ask of it and what you can't.

    I don't share the sometimes obsessive hatred for CRKT that some of our other members exhibit, either. I've never been dissatisfied with a CRKT knife.
     
  9. Seanski

    Seanski

    548
    Nov 20, 2007
    I see upon looking on site the Kershaw Scallion is 420 hc. I was going to pick one of these up but was a bit hesitant of the steel.
    After reading this thread though it helps.
     
    Last edited: May 16, 2009
  10. Iliketantos

    Iliketantos

    10
    May 16, 2009
    Yeah, I'm still on the fence about the SOG. Apart from the fact that apparently the 420J is on the cutting edge, it's the tanto I've been searching for since my Benchmade got stolen. The company claims that the 420J on the edge makes it much easier to sharpen, which makes sense since it's softer, but then I don't understand how it'd be able to retain a decent edge, let alone be rated at 60RC. I would think that would have to mean the VG-10 was on the cutting edge, but apparently it's the 420J, and that was according to their company rep I e-mailed last night.
     
  11. knarfeng

    knarfeng senex morosus moderator Staff Member Super Mod Moderator

    Jul 30, 2006
    The cutting part (center of the laminate) is VG10. Excellent edge retention.

    420J2 is used for the outsides. Good toughness. Enhanced corrosion resistance.

    The intent of the combination is to provide the edge retention of the core while improving the toughness compared to a blade composed of just the center alloy.

    BTW, Welcome to Bladeforums!
     
    Last edited: May 16, 2009
  12. Dag-nabit

    Dag-nabit

    Jan 6, 2009
    420J2 is also commonly used as a laminating steel. As a "carrier" blade for a high end steel core, it functions very well.

    But of course in this application, it doesn't have to hold the edge.

    Kevin
     
  13. Iliketantos

    Iliketantos

    10
    May 16, 2009
    Yeah, that's what I thought, and that's what seems to make sense to me. But then this was the e-mail I got.

    "Dear Andrew,
    The information on our website is up-to-date and correct. The tanto
    blade Vulcans have what is called San Mai steel lamination, in which a
    harder VG-10 core is laminated with a pliable 420J outer layer which
    provides the cutting edge - thus making the blade both flexible and
    rigid, with superior sharpening ability and enhanced edge retention
    capabilities.

    Unfortunately, many of our vendors do not keep their websites
    up-to-date, and they very well may have simply listed the steel as VG-10
    since that is what the specs are for the standard blade Vulcan knives.
    Please continue to refer to our website for the most accurate
    information about specs and features.

    Sincerely,

    Carly Sabutis
    SOG Retail Department
    425-771-6230 ext 240
    1888-40-KNIFE ext 240
    [email protected]"


    So, confused, I came here. Seems they're telling me the 420 is on the cutting edge but it has enhanced edge retention!? I dunno. The rest of the Vulcan knives are all VG-10 so I dunno what the deal with this knife is. I might be better off getting that new CPM M4 Lum Tanto benchmade's got out....the Gaucho doesn't look to bad either.
     
  14. Iliketantos

    Iliketantos

    10
    May 16, 2009
    That's what I thought too but I got this e-mail from SOG that seems to suggest otherwise.

    "Dear Andrew,
    The information on our website is up-to-date and correct. The tanto
    blade Vulcans have what is called San Mai steel lamination, in which a
    harder VG-10 core is laminated with a pliable 420J outer layer which
    provides the cutting edge - thus making the blade both flexible and
    rigid, with superior sharpening ability and enhanced edge retention
    capabilities.

    Unfortunately, many of our vendors do not keep their websites
    up-to-date, and they very well may have simply listed the steel as VG-10
    since that is what the specs are for the standard blade Vulcan knives.
    Please continue to refer to our website for the most accurate
    information about specs and features.

    Sincerely,


    SOG Retail Department
    425-771-6230 ext 240
    1888-40-KNIFE ext 240
    @sogknives.com"

    They seem to be saying that the vg-10 is on the inside only and that the 420 is wrapped around the ENTIRE edge of the knife. That hurts my brain to think about, because if the VG-10 is inside the 420 completely how could it enhance the cutting edge?


    BTW thanks for the input guys, I really appreciate it.
     
  15. Josh K

    Josh K Pirate

    Sep 29, 2008
    CRKT hardens their 3Cr13/420JS knives up to the limits of the steel. Although I've found it's edge holding to be subpar to most of my other knives (AUS-8/ATS-34), it's still decent.
     
  16. Josh K

    Josh K Pirate

    Sep 29, 2008
    I think they meant to phrase it as: "The hard VG-10 core (which is laminated with 420JS) provides the cutting edge."

    It's common for laminated knives to use 420JS as a side steel because of it's corrosion resistance.
     
  17. A_Blade_Afficionado

    A_Blade_Afficionado

    Jan 20, 2009
    It works just fine for my walmart rapala filet knife, it never rusts, is flexible, and is quick to sharpen.
    Just my $0.02
     
  18. knarfeng

    knarfeng senex morosus moderator Staff Member Super Mod Moderator

    Jul 30, 2006
    The SOG retail department needs to hire somebody who can write technical English.
    This is not the same as hiring an English Lit major.
     
  19. Iliketantos

    Iliketantos

    10
    May 16, 2009
    agreed. San Mai suggests that the VG-10 should be on the edge of the blade with 420J2 on the sides ONLY, yet SOG insists that the 420J2 encases the entire blade. If that's the case I'll cancel my order and save my money for the new Lum Tanto from Benchmade.
     
  20. ashtxsniper

    ashtxsniper

    Oct 28, 2006
    On the sog knife you are refering to the 420j2 is only on the sides of the vg-10 core. The cutting edge will be vg-10.
     

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