what about copycats?

Originally posted by brownshoe
There are other knifemakers who pride themselves on never repeating even their own work. To them, a replica by another knifemaker is meaningless, except as flattery.
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Very few. Most makers have patterns that they will do over and over. They will always make small changes so that no two knives could be considered as looking exactly the same, but very few will never repeat a pattern.
 
As an artist and as a knifemaker it is of the utmost importance to endeavor to make designs you feel are YOURS and have YOUR STYLE AND TOUCH. That is what will make it personal and CUSTOM to the customer. They want YOUR way of making the knife. YOUR design. YOUR brainchild. They have found in YOUR style a usefulness, a beauty, a comfort, a collecibility, a function that they feels is particular to YOU. Sure, all knives can be sharp and have a point and will do the same things basically but the profile and the flair, the mechanisms and the STYLE with which they are made are particular and specific to each individual maker. To copy that regularly is plaigurism. Once maybe twice is fine as practice but they should stay in that makers own personal carry but not for sale to the public. If I want a NEil Blackwood knife....I will go to Neil Blackwood (although the list is full..LOL), regardless, I will go out of my way to buy one of Neil's Knives from the secondary market if need be and continually hound him in the meantime to put me on the list (which I may just do Neil !;) ) That in itself is a testament to Neil's ability and style, that so many people want what HE makes, His way. Occasionally someone will make a knife that he or she subliminally copied bits and parts from other makers. That is possible and totally forgiveable. When realized, credit should be given and the maker should cease making any more for the sake of their own personal style and craft. You want to TRY to set yourself apart as best you can, that again will make it CUSTOM and personal and special for the customer. When they know YOUR STYLE ! YOUR DESIGN. In the end, with any knifemaker who has been copied (I have even been copied but by that damn Master cutlery company....GRRRR!), you want to encourage the custom knife maker especially. If we lose too many of them, it will endanger the art as laws and public opinion start to crack down on us (post 9/11). So, of the man in question and any others you may have in mind, there should be some diplomatic way of approaching them and not discouraging them from making knives all together but to make their own designs and come up with their own style. As for those Crap companies, we can just go blow those fu**ers up for all I care!:mad: :D ...RDT
 
Well said Rick. I couldn't agree more. It is the makers that have their own style and flair that impress me the most. Those that continually make knives that look like all the others just don't stand out. There are lots of makers that can grind a nice blade and make a high quality knife that have no imagination. What a maker needs is something that makes him stand out from the crowd. Sometimes that is a definite style, sometimes it is personality and sometimes it is an amazing ability to self promote. One thing it definitely requires is for the maker to have their own personal identity. Just making a good knife is not enough.
 
You are right keith, I stand corrected.

The knife copier I spoke of is Nathan House
 
in a different field (graphic design) the problem are -quite -the same, maybe more difficult..
i.e.: i design trademarks and logos, plus websites, it's my job since 15 years ago.
now i have a style , after ALL that years..customers came to me ,even if i'm way more expensive than others here.
in my style you -if you like visual communications- could find influences of futurism, of russian constructivism or swiss school..
but you will not find a sign directly took from ,say, a print of depero or a poster of rodchenko.this said, an old customer of mine, show me a portfolio with logos slightly different from mine, prepared from a new designer..
i cant do nothing about it. they arent the same, but they have big pieces of my work inside...for the law here, if you have full of lawyers and a lot of time , you can start a sue..
i know this person, he "growed" and worked under my "influence" , he always said that he loved my style, but now that period is .."forgotten".

sorry for long and maybe confused post..the moral is :
as long you use the influences and works of others for producing somethin new -and also if you say that you are using other's work- for me it's fine.
if you use my work and efforts and style, and you say it's yours, you are a thief. but ther's quite nothing i can do.

positive tought: most of times a motivate customer ,before or after, will recognize the model from imitation...i hope. :)

my best ,and sorry if i'm OT
 
I don't even like to listen to tribute bands that dress like and play the works of, say, Allman Brothers or Jimi Hendrix.
 
I think Rob once said, There are only so many ways to make a sharpened blade with a handle on it..
That being said, we as knifemakers work hard to have a "Look" or style of our own, as Rob most certainly did... THATS what sets a maker apart from the crowd... Innocent excuses, and denial of the obvious is NOT going to fly when your copying something made by those trying to set themselves apart..
People making Loveless' or Randalls knives ALWAYS give proper credit for design, or influence..
SOME wont even do this, THATS what makes it wrong... This is NOT a case of Big Name makers trying to beat down an upstart, its just a matter of ethics or lack there of IMO...:rolleyes:
 
The only excuse for having your knives look like dead on copies of another knifemaker is if you are their protoge` and they taught you in their shop how to make a knife their way. "Influence" means a knife might have the same feel or stying queus. There are some exceptions to the rule. Copying a Loveless or Moran or Randall is globally acceptable because they are icons. When I came up with my idea for a folding Loveless NY Special, I called Bob, discussed the idea and asked his permission. When I designed my SRJ Hunter, I took Steve Johnson's Classic Hunter pattern (which is based on Loveless) and adapted my own look, but once again with the permission of Steve. At least when someone says "Hey, that looks like an SRJ knife" I can at least say, "Thanks, he taught me that" but I strive to make my knives look like Doggett knives because there is already someone making Johnson knives, and that is Steve Johnson!

What is happening with Neil's work is intellectual thievery.
 
Stealing is bad, mmmk?

I ahve three blades in process now that are Loveless style drop point hunters. I find this to be a classic design, and it's giving me practice on guards and several other things. I dont' claim it's my design, never will.

One time I was planning on basing a knife off of one of makers who posted here in this thread. Before I even draw profile on steel, I dropped him an email, made sure it was alright with him before I proceeded. Ended up nothing like his piece at all(stainless and micarta vs. an O1 with bocote slabs, etc), but still, if I ever finish it up and sell it, will mention that original profiel/idea was from one of his blades, even though it's rather a stretch to see that inspiration now.

I do understand new makers, such as myself copying established makers, as many people have the skill, and artisans touch to make a good blade(not that I consider myself an artistan yet, but working on it), but don't have the creativity to come up with wholely new designs. These are two different skills. But if you are going to copy or be heaviliy influenced by someone, jsut admit it, as has already been said. And get the maekrs permission first if possible.
 
Getting your own look is the tough part. It must be difficult for a maker to see another's style sell very well and start to think, if only I made my blade a similar shape as so and so, mine will start to sell more also. It's that portion of the work that takes time to develop, meaning getting your own style and then hope that it's a style that will click with the buyers and collectors.
 
Here we go again,Does this not die,I have never said that my first knives were not very similair in looks,But like I have said,I am new and
I have my own designs,as you will see very soon,I am a new maker
and I have admired Neils work from the start,I said in my first works
that they were heavy in Blackwood feel
I have not bagged for any equpiment in my life nor have I sold any
thing that was given to me,I do not know were that came from.
Why am I the blunt of everyones sharped toungs,Can I just be left out off the picture,and put my first couple knives the looked like Neils behind me and press forward.
Every knife I make even if it does not look anything like Neils will I still be labled as a clone because of my first works.
Neil is proabably one of the best makers out there,and the point has been taken to heart.But in my defence I tought myslef to grind
which no one can do for you, that is somthing that is learned through pratice,that is somthing no one did for me.
So I would like to put an end to this about me,I will let you judge my next work.Please do not lable me as a bad guy because
I got off to a rough start.I have been very humbled by this and there is nothiing else for me to say,I have layed all my cards on the table,Can we let this rest and move one
Nathan:)
 
Nathan,

Get that knife finished up that you Emailed me the drawing of!!!!:eek: Take some pictures of it and POST IT. It's a very cool design that many wouldn't attempt to grind. It will definately turn some heads.
 
Neil
I set up my new contour grinder yesterday,I will be getting to work on it and a couple more,I have several more drawings,That I am going to email you before I make them.
Thanks Neil:)
 
Nathan, the sooner you get some pics of your own designs posted, the sooner people will shut up.
 
Here is a rough drawing of one I am working on.
protovlad2.jpg

Nathan
 
Why that looks just like a Nathan House design!!!

Now that looks very original and I bet it's a bitch to grind:eek:

But I bet you can do it;)
 
This is a bunch of BS. Everybody's design copies someone, somewhere. If you look at historical knives, the Green River Dadist style was a drop point hunter-are any of you critics calling Loveless a copycat? Is every bowie maker to be criticized for stealing someone's style?

Maybe you holier than thou types can show some of your original designs that don't look like anything anyone else ever made. It doesn't take much knowledge to make cheap shots at anothers work. Put up or shut up, how about it?
 
Thanks
I am looking forward to showing some off my new work.
I am interested to see what people think.
Nathan;)
 
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