What are the advantages and disadvantages of ZDP-189?

it was not one case, there were a few zdp leeks reported to have been tipped. it was the first Kershaw with zdp, and it is rather pointy.

I really don't get the 'this steel is sharp' comments, zdp or otherwise. any knife steel will get sharp, depends on your tools, skill, and patience.
 
Some steels will take a finer edge than others, and obviously the difficulty in getting the edge will vary.
 
hardheart said:
it was not one case, there were a few zdp leeks reported to have been tipped. it was the first Kershaw with zdp, and it is rather pointy.

I really don't get the 'this steel is sharp' comments, zdp or otherwise. any knife steel will get sharp, depends on your tools, skill, and patience.
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My sharpness comments are my experience with going to the extreme polish of .05 micron. Also, when going through the grits to get to that polish, I notice that some steels get sharper in push cutting tests at the same grit (one tree tops while the other steel say only cleanly shaves at the same grit). M4 and ZDP-189 take the best edge when this refined out of the blades I own, while S30V and VG-10 don't get as sharp when pushed to that extreme. All easily whittle hair or beyond and are at a level that most people don't fathom, but I notice the differences in how they whittle hair or when testing on push cutting newsprint. My Stretch 2 and Caly 3 CF can pushcut newsprint consistently over 6" and some cuts were over 7" from the point of hold, while my Rukus for instance was about an inch behind the ZDP knives. So yes, all get extremely sharp, but at 400000 grit I can see a bit of a difference in my different sharpness tests. All of these tests were same day, same hair/newsprint, same technique. Also, while all steels lose their extreme sharpness pretty fast, ZDP 189 (and especially M4) holds a very sharp edge longer than S30V and VG-10, which saves me a bit of sharpening time as I resharpen my knives when they stop cleanly shaving. A better steel that I would love to have for extreme sharpness and maintaining that extreme sharpness is AEB-L at 63 RC as done by Larrin Thomas. I used a Santoku he made with that steel for a few days and was incredibly impressed by it, though I never got a chance to do more than strop it's already used edge on some lapping film. It came to me sharp off of a steel, and the edge just popped back to life in no time on 1 micron lapping film. That steel, especially when run that hard, would be ideal for the extreme sharpness that I like so much.

Mike
 
hardheart said:
it was not one case, there were a few zdp leeks reported to have been tipped. it was the first Kershaw with zdp, and it is rather pointy.

I really don't get the 'this steel is sharp' comments, zdp or otherwise. any knife steel will get sharp, depends on your tools, skill, and patience.
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I did research on this cases and most of them leads to same "plastic toy" case and one was reported but not confirmed. One who reported it never reply when I asked him for more details.

Regards, Vassili.
 
Wasn't talking about you so much, Mike, I know the lengths you go to in sharpening and testing. More of the sharpest out of the box comments. To me, that says more about the guy at the factory than the steel. It's just hard to go with steel A over steel B when it isn't mentioned how they were sharpened, or what measure was used to say just how sharp they got. Maybe I'm wrong, but I get the impression most of the comments are made without testing hair whittling or tissue slicing, or pushcutting newsprint.

that reminds me, I really should try the newsprint tests out here in the high desert and compare to when I go back to swampy sea level. I've always felt the humidity had and effect on the paper.

oh yeah, on topic... only issue I had with zdp was a friend chipped a caly jr while cutting copper wire on a ceramic tile. not exactly regular use. I find it sharpens well, for the rockwell hardness, I don't think it has very hard carbides, seems to be only chromium?
 
AR fan said:
Gee Brutus, how wonderfully....obtuse.
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I was referring to the reasons people might call a steel "sharp." Any steel will get sharp, but some do it better than others.

Also, keep your hurt feelings to the thread they got hurt in.
 
hardheart said:
oh yeah, on topic... only issue I had with zdp was a friend chipped a caly jr while cutting copper wire on a ceramic tile. not exactly regular use. I find it sharpens well, for the rockwell hardness, I don't think it has very hard carbides, seems to be only chromium?
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3% Carbon, 20% Chromium, and very little else. I would think they are just chromium carbides.
 
I have been using one of the original burgundy Calypso Jnr with ZDP knives as a weekday EDC just about ever since they originally came out. I don't use it hard but I do use it for one thing or another almost every day during the week. (I use other knives on the weekend.)

I haven't had the slightest problem with it at all. A regular light "tune up" on the Sharpmaker keeps it shaving sharp. I'm considering getting another ZDP knife, just haven't decided what yet.
 
Josh K said:
3% Carbon, 20% Chromium, and very little else. I would think they are just chromium carbides.
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I heard that it is like listed composition and there may be some other elements there unlisted.

Thanks, Vassili.
 
nozh2002 said:
I heard that it is like listed composition and there may be some other elements there unlisted.

Thanks, Vassili.
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Correct. Someone said it's similar to Cowry X, simply switching the vanadium with tungsten and keeping ~1% molybdenum.
 
Sorry Brutus, sir. I didn't know you owned this forum. You apparently think you can tell people when/where they can post.
As far as hurting my feelings, it'll take more than a MALL NINGA, such as yourself, to do so.
 
AR fan said:
Sorry Brutus, sir. I didn't know you owned this forum. You apparently think you can tell people when/where they can post.
As far as hurting my feelings, it'll take more than a MALL NINGA, such as yourself, to do so.
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This is honestly not the appropriate thread for this.

Sorry for derailing the thread with yet another unrelated post.
 
I posted the pic of the reground ZDP-189 Leek I have but failed to mention this knife has been reground very thin.....I've carried and used this knife for quite some time and it performs very well.
 
Hardheart, I agree 100% that out of the box sharpness is a pretty worthless way to see how sharp a steel can get. Some of my ZDP knives, especially my first Jess Horn, were disappointingly dull out of the box. It sure gets sharp when I get on my stones. A pot metal made in China knife may come very sharp out of the box, but be a burr mongering steel that is almost impossible to get a great edge on. Out of the box sharpness like Spyderco generally has is nice to have, but if you use a knife you better be able to sharpen it. All ZDP-189 knives are from Spyderco and they get incredibly sharp, and none were remarkably sharp out of the box. That is part of the reason I usually sharpen a knife to an angle and finish I like before I ever use it.

Mike
 
I think ZDP is the best steel I've used to date. Remarkable edge retention, like you said Mike, you can get them stupid sharp!

My first Mini Cyclone Ti/ZDP was incredibly sharp out of the box, but some time spent working on the edge made it even better.
 
gunmike1 said:
Just curious what knife this was, as I remember the first run of ZDP Leeks having reports of tip snappings. Most knives edges will chip out when you laterally stress them like this unless they are thick and suck at cutting, or are in a very tough steel. I haven't had any undue chipping with Spyderco's ZDP-189, but I haven't used it as a drill or prybar either.

Mike
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The two that broke on me where the ti zdp leek and zdp endura. I broke the tips off both and put a big chip in the edge of the endura. I sent the leek off for the gang at kershaw to fix it up. I still have the endura that I sharpened the chip out of and a zdp lum that I never had a problem with and use the crap out of, still shaving sharp and never sharpened.
 
ericb445 said:
The two that broke on me where the ti zdp leek and zdp endura. I broke the tips off both and put a big chip in the edge of the endura. I sent the leek off for the gang at kershaw to fix it up. I still have the endura that I sharpened the chip out of and a zdp lum that I never had a problem with and use the crap out of, still shaving sharp and never sharpened.
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It will be nice to know what you did, because this is pretty unusual for ZDP189. All report of broken tips are from you, so what did you done with Endura?

Thanks, Vassili.
 
I was stripping wire at work on some heavy cable insulation cutting and prying back the insulation. That caused the chip. The broken tip on the endura was from trying to get a broken piece of a fuel fitting out of a fuel hose, of coarse from prying.
 
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ericb445 said:
I was stripping wire at work on some heavy cable insulation cutting and prying back the insulation. That caused the chip. The broken tip on the endura was from trying to get a broken piece of a fuel fitting out of a fuel hose, of coarse from prying.
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I wouldn't use ZDP-189 for either of those activities.
 
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