• The BladeForums.com 2024 Traditional Knife is ready to order! See this thread for details: https://www.bladeforums.com/threads/bladeforums-2024-traditional-knife.2003187/
    Price is $300 $250 ea (shipped within CONUS). If you live outside the US, I will contact you after your order for extra shipping charges.
    Order here: https://www.bladeforums.com/help/2024-traditional/ - Order as many as you like, we have plenty.

  • Today marks the 24th anniversary of 9/11. I pray that this nation does not forget the loss of lives from this horrible event. Yesterday conservative commentator Charlie Kirk was murdered, and I worry about what is to come. Please love one another and your family in these trying times - Spark

What are the benefits of using a chisel grind?

A.P.F. said:
No, I believe that it is a 'Besh Wedge' or a close idea of one.

I have found that a chisel grind and/or chisel edge, requires a learning curve to develope a new muscle memory in the hands. When I first started using one, I couldn't cut a straight line if you put a gun to my head. Now, through use, it is a simple matter to control the blade.
Click to expand...

Many people fear learning hand skills, even in the chef world.
 
marcinek said:
And? Again, the amont of steel behind the edge for each is the same.
Click to expand...

No, it's not. For a chisel grind, moving from the edge towards the spine, the thickness can be described as D*tan(x), where D is the distance from the edge and x is the angle. It's different for a V grind. To use trigonometry here, it is best to split the V grind into two equal right triangles. In this case, the thickness is given by 2*D*tan(y), where D is again the distance from the edge and y is the angle per side.

The problem with your assumption is that the tangent of 12.5 degrees is NOT equal to one half of the tangent of 25 degrees. If you want me to draw it, I will gladly do so.
 
bpeezer said:
No, it's not. For a chisel grind, moving from the edge towards the spine, the thickness can be described as D*tan(x), where D is the distance from the edge and x is the angle. It's different for a V grind. To use trigonometry here, it is best to split the V grind into two equal right triangles. In this case, the thickness is given by 2*D*tan(y), where D is again the distance from the edge and y is the angle per side.

The problem with your assumption is that the tangent of 12.5 degrees is NOT equal to one half of the tangent of 25 degrees. If you want me to draw it, I will gladly do so.
Click to expand...

Please do. I'm all ears, or in this case, eyes.
 
darrin sanders said:
Please do. I'm all ears, or in this case, eyes.
Click to expand...

Believe it or not, I'm glad someone asked :)

For the first case, assume two edges. The distance from the apex to the shoulder are the same, and the thickness behind the edge are the same. Prove the angle theta 1 is NOT equal to the angle theta naught.

Chisel_vs_V.jpg


To show you the calculations are good, screen shot of the values done with a graphing calculator on my phone. (sorry about the ad, the calculator is a free app :))

phone_calculations.png


The last edge on the right side of the first picture illustrates the fallacy. With a V edge, thickness is measured along a line that is perpendicular to the line that bisects the edge angle. With a chisel edge, thickness is measured along a line perpendicular to one of the sides. Yes, the edge angle is the same. However, thickness behind the edge is different ;) If you want more mathematical proof of the final picture, I will provide it later. I am being dragged off to a club right now :rolleyes:
 
So what you're saying is we need more testosterone to help waifish women crawling out of their car? :)
 
V should be more stable as the force goes through the middle of the edge/blade). Its a plane from the edge to the spine flanked on both sides by metal
With a chisel however the force goes down one of the sides. So the plane from the edge to the spine is only flanked by metal on one side. More metal on that side but none on the other.
So in theory a chisel grind should be more susceptible to side ward forces and show more rolling and chipping. Cutting tough things and chopping should be avoidable.
Sounds plausible but is it true? No clue. Haven't cut enough with both types to tell.
 
bpeezer said:
The last edge on the right side of the first picture illustrates the fallacy. With a V edge, thickness is measured along a line that is perpendicular to the line that bisects the edge angle. With a chisel edge, thickness is measured along a line perpendicular to one of the sides. Yes, the edge angle is the same. However, thickness behind the edge is different ;) If you want more mathematical proof of the final picture, I will provide it later. I am being dragged off to a club right now :rolleyes:
Click to expand...

Nope. The thickness is ALWAYS measured along a line that is perpendicular to the line that bisects the edge angle.
 
20140213_005805_zps5b6f4ae2.jpg


This was done with a chisel grind, sure double bevels can do It too, just not as fast (fish will stick to flat grinds).
 
marcinek said:
Nope. The thickness is ALWAYS measured along a line that is perpendicular to the line that bisects the edge angle.
Click to expand...

bpeezer, what you are saying is that if I have a 25 degree inclusive v grind, and I lean it over a bit (12.5 degrees) so one of its sides is now straight up and down, it gets more steel behind the edge.

That's quite a trick! :D
 
marcinek said:
bpeezer, what you are saying is that if I have a 25 degree inclusive v grind, and I lean it over a bit (12.5 degrees) so one of its sides is now straight up and down, it gets more steel behind the edge.

That's quite a trick! :D
Click to expand...

No, that is not at all what I'm saying.
 
I'm gonna have to get a chisel ground chef's knife. IMO, unless you have a very narrow flat blade and even then, thin sliced proteins tend to stick to a flat ground blade.

It seems like every time I start a thread about grinds and the benefits of, it always ends up in a geometry debate (cough cough Marcinek). Ol' Duder needs a refresher course. I appreciate the insight none the less.
 
Last edited:
Joe Duder said:
I'm gonna have to get a chisel ground chef's knife. IMO, unless you have a very narrow flat blade and even then, thin sliced proteins tend to stick to a flat ground blade.

It seems like every time I start a thread about grinds and the benefits of, it always ends up in a geometry debate (cough cough Marcinek). Ol' Duder needs a refresher course. I appreciate the insight none the less.
Click to expand...

If If you mean sujihiki, yeah proteins stick to those.
 
If you're looking in to getting/trying a chisel grind blade, please be sure to get the appropriate chisel grind for your dominant hand. The majority of production knives I've seen with a chisel grind have been for left handed people. If you have to think about which side the grind is supposed to be on; think of slicing food or working with wood. So if you're right handed slicing celery, you're holding the celery stalk in your left hand with your knife in your right hand cutting the celery from right to left. The chisel grind for a right handed person should be on the right side of the blade where the little slices of celery are coming off. This is why people say that the material pushes away from what you are cutting. the same thing with wood - If you're holding the knife in your right hand horizontally slicing away from you, the chisel ground will be on the upward portion of the blade pushing the material away. As far as pros and cons, I don't really have any.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top