What are you willing to put up with?

[ShaiHulud]

Truly a man of minimalism! Haha

But the idea being, at least with Seki, Japan knives, these are tools built to function and do their job, even the USA models, and taking 'em apart and inspecting it on the level of a high end or custom is silliness. About all I like is a good even cutting edge, I want to be able to use a knife right out of the box. This is why I don't do Case knives. I HATE buying China, but Rough Ryder does perfectly for $17 that Case can't for near $70. I shoulda went with the Buck 301? but I didn't know about it at the time, and Case's rep + the beautifully colored handle lured me in.

I was being a part time joker, I only mean, so many people talk about this and that being wrong, or not ideal, or ugly, but how many people can say with certainty that they <used> a knife until it broke. This excludes abusing it, because I have some... God awful Chinese kitchen stamped tomfoolery in the kitchen that is almost as old as I am and still cuts, or uh, pinches food into submission. Most people have never used a knife until its breaking point, abusing, yes, and it appears often.
Your knife can have surface rust, putting, discoloration, hell, even bent some and I bet it'll last years yet. It's arsthetics and optics that became as equally important as functionality

 

[Chronovore]

I do kind of expect a design that allows the knife to be taken apart and reassembled many times and still operate correctly without any changes in performance whatsoever

Up until the last few years, I was mostly a budget guy. I had a few nicer fixed blades but generally, a fancy Leek was fancy for me.

Having already been a regular tinkerer on budget knives, this was one of the wins for more premium knives. Reflecting on WE and Civivi, I remember my first Civivis in 2018. I was blown away by the quality T8 hardware, clean internals, lack of internal tool marks, etc. They still sometimes needed a little care or adjustment in reassembly but it was a significant improvement on the budget scene. Then I got my first WE and was blown away again, this time by how easily they go back together and how I could almost accidentally hit the sweet spot between good action and solid lock-up on the first try.

 

[airrick2003]

I've only ever sent back two blades. One for a scale that wasn't ground flat which produced a gap between it and the tang, and another for an off center pin hole in the scale. Both of those were in the $350-$400 range.
Oddly I did not send back a folder that had a frame lock that would easily fail with the lightest finger pressure on the top of the blade, and a folder that had a burr on the choil. Both of those folders were in the 500 range. I also had a $375 folder arrive with some blade movement that just needed the pivot tightened. You'd think at those prices one wouldn't get such defects.

 

[Rob47]

This is strange to me. If, in fact, you view knives as tools, let me as you this, do you take all your tools apart? Ratchets? Routers? Pliers?
on the other hand, if they are “ man jewelry” , do you take your Rolex’s, Phillipe Patek’s and Omega’s apart? What’s this obsession with taking knives apart? They’re not really like firearms. They don’t need to be disassembled for normal cleaning and maintenance. I just don’ get it.

 

[ShaiHulud]

This is strange to me. If, in fact, you view knives as tools, let me as you this, do you take all your tools apart? Ratchets? Routers? Pliers?
on the other hand, if they are “ man jewelry” , do you take your Rolex’s, Phillipe Patek’s and Omega’s apart? What’s this obsession with taking knives apart? They’re not really like firearms. They don’t need to be disassembled for normal cleaning and maintenance. I just don’ get it.

This thread is to encourage others to reevaluate whats really important to them in the knife they buy. I recently got a helle knife delivered to me and I went over every detail as if I was a crime scene investigator, and saw a small blackish smudge near the tip, and spent over 3 hours working it out, it's still kind of there and I felt bad, and I sat back and asked myself, what truly is a knife? What do we want it to be, versus what was it truly?
So I stopped trying to get rid of the spot. And told myself " just use it, I bet it'll outlast you anyway"
So I got curious what others would put up with before having to return it

 

[Rob47]

As I posted earlier in this thread, it takes a pretty major flaw for me to return a knife.

 

[unwisefool]

If you're going to use the knife, I'd only return it for something that affects function or safety.

Nope, pay enough for a knife and it should be well crafted in all regards. If they are letting cosmetic flaws out the door, if they are ok with "good enough", how do I know that the heat treat or material quality is as it should be?

 

[ShaiHulud]

Nope, pay enough for a knife and it should be well crafted in all regards. If they are letting cosmetic flaws out the door, if they are ok with "good enough", how do I know that the heat treat or material quality is as it should be?

Good point. Company reputation is important, I'd say

 

[Jacques Mi]

It really depends on the specifics.

I’m not going to send back a $20 machete for a bad grind, but I’m likely to send back a very expensive folder that has a small cosmetic flaw that bothers me - even if it won’t affect performance.

Only thing I can’t tolerate at all is a bent blade (and it’s shocking how often I see them).

The only knife I have ever returned was the GP folder from Fallkniven. It came straight from their shop in Sweden with a weirdly bent blade.
The fact that the owner acted like a prissy little girl when I contacted them with the issue assured me to never acquire another Fallkniven knife ever again.

So a bent blade and a very, very poor customer service are apparently the two things I can't put up with.

 

[killgar]

This is strange to me. If, in fact, you view knives as tools, let me as you this, do you take all your tools apart? Ratchets? Routers? Pliers?
on the other hand, if they are “ man jewelry” , do you take your Rolex’s, Phillipe Patek’s and Omega’s apart? What’s this obsession with taking knives apart? They’re not really like firearms. They don’t need to be disassembled for normal cleaning and maintenance. I just don’ get it.

Well, since you asked .

I've taken all three ratchets below apart. They are a few generations old, and through decades of use by my father and grandfather I can only assume that the heads had been frequently covered with grease and motor oil, and that some of it seeped into the works. By the time I got them they barely functioned. So I opened them up, found they were choked with dried crud, gave them a thorough cleaning, lubed them, put them back together, and they worked like new.

I don't take things apart for the fun of it, including knives, but if I feel I have a good reason to take something apart, and if it can be taken apart, and if I'm confident I can put it properly back together, I don't hesitate. I like to be self-sufficient.

As far as watches, I've never owned any expensive ones. But I have always changed my own watch batteries .

 

[Jeeeen!]

I've never returned a knife, just complain about it.

My first sebenza (small bocote) had uneven edge bevels, especially near the tip and heel. I think they press too hard at the beginning and end of the grind. My large (gabon) was similar, not as bad. Almost not acceptable for the price I paid. Lucky for them, I can reprofile and sharpen my edges.
Same goes for any busse I've bought. It's like they're hammered drunk when grinding the edge.

My spydercos and shirogorovs have come perfect. Spyderco was surprising. No blade play, even grind, no blemish etc.

Recently got a giantmouse ace sonoma, belly was uneven.
Also a heretic manticore, some bladeplay, hate the recurve portion of the blade. Hate any recurve blades.

 

[scdub]

I think about This a lot lately....
I'm deciding how I want to proceed, but I'm toying with the idea of being a Maker here.....

The knives I like, are usually handmade.
I freehand grind, and sharpen my knives by eye. as of now I'm not using fixtures.

I Can't make perfect knives. There are going to be subtle variances. Wonky angles, scratches, and little imperfections. I like that.
I don't usually like the clean, sterile looks of a CNC made knife.

This is a good discussion, I'm curious as the direction it takes.

Just a thought about this.

Well two thoughts: First one is I hope you do it!

#2) I’m generally not super picky about aesthetics, but there is one particular issue that I commonly see which I suspect is just overlooked by some makers: Mis-matched contour lines on two-tone, layered micarta scales.

Unless you’re using some funky homemade micarta or something, I would strongly suggest that as you are grinding the handle scales that you pay attention to the layers of micarta so that the “stripes” or topographic lines on both sides of the handle match.

This has the added benefit of allowing you to easily make the shape of each scale the same.

I’ve sanded down a couple of handles to make them more matchy-matchy, but it’s nice to receive a knife that already is.

 

[gazz98]

I've never returned a knife for any reason. Sure there are a few things that bother me a little but I can usually fix those.

I have never had a blade that rubbed a scale. Off center sure, but I'm pretty good at straightening those with some tinkering. Sure it be centered, yes. But at the $50-120 range I tend to deal with, not a big deal.

I would prefer a knife to be sharpened properly (sharp, even bevels, etc.) but again I can fix that myself.

My most expensive knife is $160 so I don't know what to say about more expensive knives other than repeat what others have said. The more expensive the knife, the higher the standards and expectations I would have.

 

[gentleman_edc]

This is strange to me. If, in fact, you view knives as tools, let me as you this, do you take all your tools apart? Ratchets? Routers? Pliers?
on the other hand, if they are “ man jewelry” , do you take your Rolex’s, Phillipe Patek’s and Omega’s apart? What’s this obsession with taking knives apart? They’re not really like firearms. They don’t need to be disassembled for normal cleaning and maintenance. I just don’ get it.

This really is really interesting. I really like the "Rolex" analogy, but would throw in "your 2010 or later car". I agree on much of this analogy, however there is regular maintenance required on a knife. Sharpening, lubricating, ... and any tool that has moving parts and is expected to outlive it's first few mantenance actions. needs some concern for it.

For myself:
* I don't change my own oil in the car
* I have never opened a slip joint because it needs maintenance (playing around with restoring doesn't count).
* When appliances break or starts acting funny, I do tend to take things apart, clean them out and try to get more life out of them.
* Of course knives are "man jewelry.

The desire to disassemble a brand new knife is strange, but I'm not one to judge other's strange actions.

 

[awesome14]

I look for knives that are well made but poorly finished. I purchased a box of 9" stilettos marked "Italia Milano". A box was 10 knives for $100. Every one of them was attractive afa the blade and other external aesthetics.

But all the blades had wobble, poor lubrication, manufacturing dust (with steel in it), and none had that nice stiletto sound with the two clicks close together. I tightened, cleaned and lubed them, deployed each one about 100 times, and sold all but 2 for between $40 and $60 ea. And I don't hype. I'm a judge for yourself kinda guy.

That's how I usually purchase. I have a small machine shop and a multitude of tools and parts specifically for knife work, usually folders. But I just got in some pretty rough looking Damascus bowies with excellent blades, but the finish is far from complete. I could only get 4 of those. I've final-finished one, and sold it for $187.
Like I said, the blades are absolutely fantastic. But there are a few final touches on a damascus steel blade that really improve the look and feel.

Then, of course I sharpened it enough to shave body hair, and sealed the edge with wax, because HC steel dulls just from the humidity in the air. And if you wax them right, it just chips with a fingernail.
I also hunted down some Victorinox 85mm Evo scales with rubber grip, which people seem to like the best. I purchased 20 pairs. I have 4 pairs left. It's amazing what a difference new scales make on a SAK!
Now, if I see a knife I just fall in love with (usually on the expensive side), it's like first scoping out an attractive woman! All sensibilities go out the window, and I'm going to have her--if she'll have me--and it would take a big defect for me to send her away.
I don't have a shop for working on females, but a little kindness, class, respect and adoration go a long way in that regard.
And I treat my women better than my knives, even the most treasured ones, because people are so much more important than things. Although, I just can't seem to fiind the perfect knife, or woman, for me. It's just how life is. A lot of hearts get broken, like when a kid made off with my Ka Bar.

 

[Chronovore]

The desire to disassemble a brand new knife is strange, but I'm not one to judge other's strange actions.

Having done this to maybe a hundred knives, I can tell you that it is often worth it and more so with budget knives. Sure, some knives leave the factory with clean internals (Civivi was a game changer on this when they hit the budget scene in 2018). Many don't. There can be grit, grime, or even the odd metal shaving trapped in there. There might also be a burr left here or there that could be worth taking a couple of seconds to clean up.

Even with clean internals, it can be a fun part of getting to know the knife. You will sometimes notice things like a particular company putting reference marks in certain places or on certain parts. Some companies leave more tool marks than others on the internals.

Another thing is the mystery lube (etc.) Even if it is free from unwanted solutes, grime, or random particulates from the factory; what is it? Is it primarily a lubricant or a protectant? How toxic is it and do you want that stuff leeching out in a pocket next to your reproductive organs? I'm much happier starting fresh with a known lubricant of my own choosing.

Depending on the individual knife, going through this can sometimes offer immediate improvements in action or sometimes dramatically shorten the "break in" period for a new knife.