What AVAILABLE steel for stainless chopper?

Larrin said:
You asked which one cuts better and now you’ve switched to which one chops better. You’re about the 70th person over the last three days to tell me that humans cut differently than robots.
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There was many different way we cut things with our knife....when we chops isn't that cutting ? I look again in this http://www.hefajstos.agh.edu.pl/fil...blades - J. Verhoeven A. Pendray H. Clark.pdf
Why 52100 is austenitized on 840 celsius on that test ? Here on BF golden temp is 800 celsius ?
 
razor-edge-knives said:
personally, I would go with Vanax if I was looking for a stainless chopper probably
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Which is more or less the same of Zfinit (different makers), a low carbon nitrogen steel with great stainless properties, already mentioned here. One of my choices, also.
 
hugofeynman said:
Which is more or less the same of Zfinit (different makers), a low carbon nitrogen steel with great stainless properties, already mentioned here. One of my choices, also.
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There is almost no similarity between z-finit and Vanax other than nitrogen >0.05% is relatively rare.
 
Larrin said:
There is almost no similarity between z-finit and Vanax other than nitrogen >0.05% is relatively rare.
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Ah, ok, my bad, I’m sorry. I erroneously compared these two in therms of both having less than 0.5% carbon, both having nitrogen and both being stainless. For a Metallurgist, this is heresy, I’m sure:-).

Wish one will be tougher, Larrin? The one with more nitrogen (Vanax)? Zfinit we already saw that is no match for AEB-L, maybe Vanax could be the new king of the hill...
 
hugofeynman said:
Ah, ok, my bad, I’m sorry. I erroneously compared these two in therms of both having less than 0.5% carbon, both having nitrogen and both being stainless. For a Metallurgist, this is heresy, I’m sure:).

Wish one will be tougher, Larrin? The one with more nitrogen (Vanax)? Zfinit we already saw that is no match for AEB-L, maybe Vanax could be the new king of the hill...
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Adding an extra 1% nitrogen, 3% chromium, and 3.5% vanadium, and then producing it with a powder metallurgy process and calling them the "same" would be heresy indeed. Z-Finit has a much lower carbide volume so despite it being produced with a conventional ingot process it is probably tougher than Vanax. Hopefully we can test its toughness to directly compare the two.
 
hugofeynman said:
One option is showing your client Larrins graph, and telling him that Elmax has (more or less) the same toughness of M390.
There’s another steel you can use, Zfinit, a nitrogen steel with good edge retention and good toughness (much tougher than Elmax and a bit less than AEBL). It’s price is probably the same as Elmax, so your client will see it as “premium” steel (I was like that in the past, if a steel was too “cheap” probably wasn’t good).
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I was also going to suggest Z-finit. Its pretty damn tough in my testing!
Elmax should be good too!
I hade heard great stuff about AEB-L, havent used it though. Seems like everyone here has tested it quite a bit. And its very inexpensive.
 
razor-edge-knives said:
personally, I would go with Vanax if I was looking for a stainless chopper probably
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It would be awesome! But very expensive!
Larrin said:
Adding an extra 1% nitrogen, 3% chromium, and 3.5% vanadium, and then producing it with a powder metallurgy process and calling them the "same" would be heresy indeed. Z-Finit has a much lower carbide volume so despite it being produced with a conventional ingot process it is probably tougher than Vanax. Hopefully we can test its toughness to directly compare the two.
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I have a customer that will be testing vanax and Zfinit from me. The blades are still at HT. Should be an interesting comparison.
 
DevinT said:
That’s funny that a maker with little experience like you is criticizing Verhoeven, Pendray and Clark.

Hoss
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Hoss, I'm not so sure he was criticizing as he was asking a question... But often times because of the language barrier it can come across like this. I think he's trying to figure out why the temp variation between what most go with here (from what he's seen) vs what was done in the study. And not all criticism is necessarily bad, constructive criticism is helpful imho, and most makers welcome it.
 
razor-edge-knives said:
Hoss, I'm not so sure he was criticizing as he was asking a question... But often times because of the language barrier it can come across like this. I think he's trying to figure out why the temp variation between what most go with here (from what he's seen) vs what was done in the study. And not all criticism is necessarily bad, constructive criticism is helpful imho, and most makers welcome it.
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Do you think that Verhoeven, Pendray(rip), and Clark could benefit from some constructive criticism?

Hoss
 
DevinT said:
Do you think that Verhoeven, Pendray(rip), and Clark could benefit from some constructive criticism?

Hoss
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Yes, I do. Whenever you reach "god like" status where no one can question you and your word is the final authority, then it's not a good thing. It doesn't matter how far you go in any field, there are always things to be discussed and determined. Personally I highly respect anyone who has achievements and knowledge like they do yet is humble enough to answer questions and continually evaluate their methods and processes to be better.

Edit: sorry forgot to quote you!
 
It’s always the guy with a few years of experience that wants to give constructive criticism to the guys with 50 years of research and a PhD.

Hoss
 
Larrin said:
840°C is certainly within the recommended range for 52100. The Crucible datasheet recommends 815-845, for example: https://www.crucible.com/eselector/prodbyapp/carbon/52100.html
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I don t think so at least when we HT blade from 52100 steel ................. here on BF you can find many topic about HT 52100 steel .....you can search for yourself .All respectable knifmaker here recommended even lower temp then 800celsius ........ ? Thats way I ask why they use 840 celsius in test ?
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Natlek said:
I don t think so at least when we HT blade from 52100 steel ................. here on BF you can find many topic about HT 52100 steel .....you can search for yourself .All respectable knifmaker here recommended even lower temp then 800celsius ........ ? Thats way I ask why they use 840 celsius in test ?
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Just because there are "respectable" knifemakers on an internet forum recommending lower than 800°C doesn't mean it can't be effectively heat treated higher than that.
 
DevinT said:
That’s funny that a maker with little experience like you is criticizing Verhoeven, Pendray and Clark.

Hoss
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I don t think that I deserve name maker.I m far away from that .For now what I know is to cut ,grind and finish knife and use HT protocol data from here . BUT as guest on this planet for more then half century I had the opportunity to spend probably more then five years outdoor .I worn , break , lost many ,many knives in that time .Used them in milion different way ......So , I know something about knife from first hand .....:D
About criticizing ............. from when to ask question is criticizing ?And I ask again..WHY 840 celsius not 800 which everyone here recommended ?I know difference but probably I will mess everything with my broken English if I try to explain myself :p
 
Larrin said:
Just because there are "respectable" knifemakers on an internet forum recommending lower than 800°C doesn't mean it can't be effectively heat treated higher than that.
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Of course that it can be effectively HT higher then that .But that is not answer on question I ask ? WHY knifemaker HT on 800 NOT on 840 ?
 
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