What AVAILABLE steel for stainless chopper?

[jdm61]

Most respectable knife makers on here do not recommend temps in celsius because that is commie propaganda.

 

[Larrin]

Of course that it can be effectively HT higher then that .But that is not answer on question I ask ? WHY knifemaker HT on 800 NOT on 840 ?

That's more a question of history, culture, and echo chambers than metallurgy. They may be seeking toughness rather than other properties.

 

[shqxk]

If anyone gonna use AEBL for some large chopper especially with relatively thin thickness. Make sure you have aluminium plate quench and grind post HT. Quenching in liquid media like oil or molten salt is not a good idea for this material. Dont ask me why I know it

 

[hugofeynman]

If anyone gonna use AEBL for some large chopper especially with relatively thin thickness. Make sure you have aluminium plate quench and grind post HT. Quenching in liquid media like oil or molten salt is not a good idea for this material. Dont ask me why I know it

I was going to ask why not quenching in oil. I thought any steel could be oil quenched, just need to adjust the oil cooling speed.

 

[Natlek]

That's more a question of history, culture, and echo chambers than metallurgy. They may be seeking toughness rather than other properties.

Would that 800/840 change test result ?

 

[Natlek]

Most respectable knife makers on here do not recommend temps in celsius because that is commie propaganda.

Like !

 

[shqxk]

I was going to ask why not quenching in oil. I thought any steel could be oil quenched, just need to adjust the oil cooling speed.

Quenching in oil would give you optimized properties since the quenching rate is fast.

But this stuff is warped like mofo and it is quite difficult to straighten it as quenched because of the foil wrapped.

 

[hugofeynman]

Quenching in oil would give you optimized properties since the quenching rate is fast.

But this stuff is warped like mofo and it is quite difficult to straighten it as quenched because of the foil wrapped.

Ok, so it can be marquenched or grinded after heat treatment, or don’t complicate things and plate quench, like you said.

 

[Larrin]

Would that 800/840 change test result ?

For CATRA testing it is unlikely to make a huge difference.

 

[Natlek]

For CATRA testing it is unlikely to make a huge difference.

But will make significant difference in real world use ?

 

[JG Custom Metal Works]

Would that 800/840 change test result ?

I think we’ve kind of drifted off topic a bit. Not to be rude but, I didn’t start the thread to figure out the variances in HT temps for 52100. In fact non-stainless steels weren’t even to be part of the equation. My customer wants a stainless steel chopper. I’m just trying to figure out what is going to be the best for him.

I’m sure if you made a thread discussing 52100 HT there would be multiple people who would join in. I would. I actually have a 52100 profiled blank of a cane toad chopper(bladesports chopper design) from Jose Diaz that I’ll be grinding one of these days and will need HT info for.

I do appreciate the spreading of knowledge in regards to anything involving knifemaking, but I prefer to keep this thread focused on the original question as much as possible. I DO very much appreciate those who have shared their thoughts on my question. I’ve definitely been chewing on the info and am enjoying the on-topic discussion.

 

[JG Custom Metal Works]

I’ve used a lot of Elmax and it is a good steel but if you make a chopper out of it run it 58/59 rc and good luck. I would take S35vn over it in a chopper . Have tested both. But my go to steel for choppers is Z wear it’s not a stainless but it holds up very good. Very tuff steel and takes a nice edge.

When you say “good luck” what are you meaning? Do you not think it would be a good choice for a chopper? If not, that’s totally fine. I don’t have a dog in this fight per say. I just wanna make sure I’m understanding you.

 

[JG Custom Metal Works]

It’s almost like N690 stainless, I think, Mete. Extrema Ratio uses it in all his knives, including his kukris, in this case, they drop the hardness to 54/55hrc, if I remember correctly. So, the steel is the same, but the behavior will be much different. Maybe the OP can use Elmax and drop the hardness, because when hardness decreases, toughness increases, but the client will experience a different behavior from the same steel.

Maybe JG Custom Metal Works can use cpm3v with this exact heat treatment:

Roman Landes Heat Treatment recomendation

“Now this is what I would recommend for heat treat cpm 3v:


1st preheat: 500-600°C, equalize

2nd preheat:800-900°C, equalize

Autenize: 1060-1070°C, equalize, soak 30-35min

Quench in Oil preheated 60-80°C

Cryo: immediately after cleaning, minimum -80°C or lower soak 30min

1st Temper: 150°C equalize, soak 2hrs, quench in water

Cryo: immediately after temper

2nd Temper: 180-200°C equalize, soak 2hrs

should give you 60+ and a fine durable grain.“ Roman Landes.

With this heat treatment, this steel will have some stainless properties, lots of wear resistance (probably the same as Elmax, or even higher), toughness (much more than Elmax) and a premium steel (price is the same as Elmax, more or less).

I actually have a decent amount of experience with 3v. I have a real good HT recipe for it yielding very adequate hardness/toughness. Unfortunately it’s not stainless. :/

Of topic, but I’m finishing up this 3v chopper today. Hardness is 60.5. Just have to sand the perimeter of the tang, blend into the handle, buff, and make a sheath.

 

[Natlek]

I think we’ve kind of drifted off topic a bit. Not to be rude but, I didn’t start the thread to figure out the variances in HT temps for 52100. In fact non-stainless steels weren’t even to be part of the equation. My customer wants a stainless steel chopper. I’m just trying to figure out what is going to be the best for him.

I’m sure if you made a thread discussing 52100 HT there would be multiple people who would join in. I would. I actually have a 52100 profiled blank of a cane toad chopper(bladesports chopper design) from Jose Diaz that I’ll be grinding one of these days and will need HT info for.

I do appreciate the spreading of knowledge in regards to anything involving knifemaking, but I prefer to keep this thread focused on the original question as much as possible. I DO very much appreciate those who have shared their thoughts on my question. I’ve definitely been chewing on the info and am enjoying the on-topic discussion.

You're right , I apologize

 

[Jesenius]

Most respectable knife makers on here do not recommend temps in celsius because that is commie propaganda.

Wake up, man, and look around! It's 21-century, not 80's of the 20-th.

To be not totally off-topic. I could recommend M390 over Elmax. Friend of mine on our local knife forum made several choppers from it and they preforms very well. You can wach on YT some test's of them...

 

[Natlek]

I actually have a decent amount of experience with 3v. I have a real good HT recipe for it yielding very adequate hardness/toughness. Unfortunately it’s not stainless. :/

Of topic, but I’m finishing up this 3v chopper today. Hardness is 60.Just have to sand the perimeter of the tang, blend into the handle, buff, and make a sheath.

Why not 3V and Hard Chrome plating ? More stainless then that ...amen !

 

[DevinT]

In general, steels (carbon, low alloy, tool, and stainless steels) that have lower volumes of carbides and also smaller carbides are tougher than steels with higher volumes and larger carbides. Steels with higher volumes and larger carbides have greater wear resistance. Steels with large carbides are prone to carbide pull out when used in chopping.

Steels with higher carbon and alloy content produce greater volumes and larger carbides.

Pick a stainless with good attainable hardness and simpler chemical make up. AEB-L would be a great choice if they made it in thicker sizes. ~.200 is as thich as I’ve seen. I have forged some thicker when needed.

There’s not a lot of stainless steels in the mid range. (Size and volume of carbide) They jump from aeb-l to 154, 440c, elmax, m390 etc. Niolox might be a good choice if you can find it.

I have laminated A2, 3V, V4xtra, M4, and several others in the core with 410 and 420 cladding in cases wher there needed to be more stain resistance.

Hoss

 

[Richard338]

I suggest talking to the customer about why they want stainless. If they have a good understanding of steel properties and a good reason to want truly stainless, then fine.
Otherwise I might try to talk them into 3V.
3V has resisted my bluing efforts and so for me, compared to A2, it is damn near stainless...

 

[Jesenius]

I prefer stainless steels too, because they are (almost) careless.

 

[skillgannon]

I have been using CPM M4 folders for maybe 7 years. The only rust issues I ever had was swimming in saltwater and leaving in wet in my pocket. I forced a patina on the last because it was still bright after about 3 years of use. I have carried them every day and even wore out a Benchmade Contego. From what I have heard 3V is 3ven more rust resistant. It should be pretty free.