What busse is this?

[Walking Man]

1) They all look alike to me.. Over sized entry level guardless drop point hunter. But whats all the busse. Looks line a cheap hunting knife, not even remotley desighned correctly as a combat blade. Is adversing Hype really that effective?

I will answer your questions as best as I can.
1) They don't all look alike. The Meanstreet models are much pointier, also he makes these in two versions, a thick and a thin.
2) What you do mean by a combat knife? Do you mean a fighting knife?
I think Jerry has (IMO) decided that a pointy drop point has plenty of penetration power, thus eliminating the cost of a extra grind, which is FINE with me. IF I wanted to turn that into a fighter, I could easily use a file to make the tip pointier. Also, Jerry has contacted and worked with TONS of customers and military personal to gain feedback and insight as to what his customers desires are.
3) These AREN'T customs. Jerry makes fine custom fighters that have nice pointy parts, but you have to order them specially. Although he is supposed to be coming out a couple production fighters.
4) LOYALTY........ Based ONLY on his "go ahead and dare to compare" philosophy. EVERY toughness comparison that I have seen has always left the Busses way ahead.
Check out WWW.Badmojo.tv to see all of the knives. Then I think you'll change your mind.

 

[Progunner]

guy's I do formaly give my depest apology..I was very sleepy at the time. I'm trying to express my ignorance of the Busse knives. I am being completly honest when I say that iI am trying to under stand the penonoma Of the busse. I guess that I'm asking in the wrong way.. Not to mention that my deslexia gives me fits. As to my qualifications, my shop is located at Ft. Hood Tx. the worlds largest military base. I've been making combat related knives for a ver, very long time. I've had dealers and users say that I should advertize, as I have not, only depending on word of mouth, a lot of users, collectors, and you guys, don't know my work. I think that No less than bob Loveless him self, has turned ovet over 30 patterns and permission to use modifications of his logos, both Foot Ball and well as the famous Nude. Should give you an Idea of my quality. I did't mean my question as a falme. Its just that many of his blades look very much like what we build as camp knives. Much like a large drop point hunter. With Hiltless construction to be able to have a low cost model. this is not to say that the Bussie is not a fine blade, I'm confident that it is. In the not so distant past, Combat blade had a very definate set of criteria. Ie, A keen point, with a thick spine for penetration. A Half or Saber grind for strength, Sharpened false edge, or clip for back cuts, as well as aiding penetration. A Double Hilt for protecting the hand from both an opponents blade, as well as from keeping the user's hand off the blade when piercing, or stabbing. Hands in combat may be sweaty, bloody, any number of things, and a cut hand is a really bad idea in a combat setting, or anyother for that matter, this is why I ask the question, The bussie looks like an exelent chopper. But this is only one aspect of a combat blade. Every one talkes about chopping wood. Seen many tree's in our current, theater of opperation. that's a joke for the stuffier of you. So as a newbie, I really do want to know. I was talking to a very well known, and famous combat, and fighting knife desighner tonight on the phone, and he is also curious. The Bussie thing is very resent, Maby not in terms here on BF, but in the greater scheam of things, they are very recent. With out an intence Advertizing campain, most of you would never heard of them. So tell the truth. Other than camp type chores, like chopping, what do they excell at. No falmes please. I would like real opinions.. thanks. http://home.earthlink.net/~michaellovett/ Also photo.epson.com type in michaellovett@earthlink.net for entry to more photos.

Mr. Lovett,

I am glad I took the time to read the rest of the thread, as I was preparing a very scolding reply. If you really and truly seek to understand the phenomenon of Busse Combat knives, then I hope that we can explain it to you. I think it means something different to everyone here. For me personally it is a lot of things. I have owned and used a lot of production blades in my short 32 years on this dirt ball and I have sent them all to reside with other people to amass my current collection. When I first found out about this company and it's blades I was a little more than hesitant with the hype. So I got a Ergo Steelheart as I decided that I would try one and see how it stacked up. Now I am not a Spec Operator or a skilled knife fighter. I use knives for camp chores, brush clearing and the like so I was looking for something beefy that could handle such work. I found it in this knife and future blades I have purchased from Busse and others here in the secondary market. So one of the number one reasons for the phenomenon is the products really do perform.

The second reason for what my wife calls our "cult" following of Busse knives is the man himself. Jerry is down to earth and about the nicest guy I have ever met. If you have a problem with anything in your dealings with his company, he does his level best to make things right. Whether is it a flaw in the finish of a knife, a blade you don't feel is sharp enough right out of the box or anything you can think of, he is on it. He knows the key to what all old school successful business men know, take care of the customer above all else because they are the ones putting food on your table and a happy customer base can drive your success. If there is any doubt about that just look at all of us here who are true believers in the man and his products. If his knives and his company didn't perform as he said, I would not spend my hard earned money with him.

As for the designs, I really suggest you look at the varied models displayed at the badmojo link one of the other guys posted, just to get a firm grasp of what has been offered in the past. I think there are about as many different definitions of what a "combat knife" is as there are knife designs. Busse Combat makes hard uses blades that I personally would consider utilitarian tool first and weapon second. I have never served our great land as a soldier, but I have friends in the service and I have managed to get a few of them into Busse knives. They love them. If I asked them to give me a percentage of the time they use their knife to fight with as oppose to breaking down pallets to burn or open cans and MRE's or cutting cordage etc. I am betting that the majority of their usage falls to the later rather than the former. Would a Steelheart effectively kill a man if the need arose? I am betting it would do the job, especially if the user is properly motivated. Now is it the most efficient design for hand to hand CQC, probably not. But if you were properly motivated a hammer makes one hell of a weapon, but it serves other purposes as well. Am I making sense? Don't confuse the name of the company with the focus of many of their designs. Jerry's knives have seen combat actions, there are servicemen out there that can attest to their having had a Busse with them while in country. Now did they all buy a Busse intending to use it primarily as a weapons or as a tool? The ones I have talked to would lean more towards tool first, weapon second.

Does Jerry make blades that are more fighter than chopper? Yes. I have seen some of the ones he has done for SF units and the like and they are about as far from the extreme chopper that the Battle Mistress or Steel Heart is. I understand where you are coming from with the dedicated fighting knife having guards and the like to protect the combatant while engaged in a fight. Classic fighting knife designs are classics for a reason I suppose. But are such things a requirement for all fighting knives? Not historically, I contend. Not for all users who train with a knife as a weapon either evidently, as the ones Jerry has made for SF units, that I am aware of, don't have such things as you describe. I would imagine if the trained professionals felt they were absolutely necessary, they would demand the features on their knives. Maybe I am wrong. You would have to ask those soldiers who commissioned such blades for their opinions.

On the historical side I look to one of the legendary knife makers from the second world war, John Ek. His knives reportedly saw a great deal of use in both the European and Pacific theaters. Many a soldier, sailor and marine carried his knives with them. You can find accounts here and there of such fighting men and their knife usage. His blades handled many mundane cutting tasks and dispatched many an enemy. If you look at his basic design, it has no guard to even keep the hand from slipping up the blade. He relied upon the design of his handle slabs to keep the blade where it belongs. I used to collect original John Ek knives and they are no where near the "indestructible" tools that Busse makes in comparison. Did they make it possible for many servicemen to make it home in one piece when it was the only weapon they had? Undoubtedly.

I guess what I am saying is that there are as many ways to make a knife as there are uses. The bottom line is, if Jerry's knives didn't perform, they wouldn't be in the hands of many servicemen and civilians alike. I don't care how much money they spent on advertising campaigns. I can think of one such company out there these days that demonstrates that quite clearly, but I will not name them as that would be poor form. Everyone's taste vary, if they didn't many knife makers would be out of business or they would all be making the same kind of knives. No one design can do it all as you know. As a side note, Jerry has sold many a blade to servicemen before the "Busse Combat Knife Co." ever existed. In the days when he was making the knives himself and selling them at gun shows near military bases and the like, he did well enough to make the current company possible. I have one of the first generation Badger Attacks that reportedly went over the first time we went up against Saddam and it has seen some serious use, but the finish was all that suffered. Jerry made his early knives in a sizeable quantity, yet you rarely see them for sale. When they do sell, they are sold for a premium. I think that the original owners are hanging on to them because they served them well.

It is late an I am sure that I am missing something but I will have to reread this in the morning when my mind is more clear. I hope this helped you a little bit. The honest search for knowledge will always be welcome here, but you can see how loyal a bunch we are when things come across wrong.

 

[Cobalt]

it is to dang early for me to even begin trying to read pgunners post. I need a drink

 

[yoda4561]

I like the way the company is run, and I like their knives. Why do I like their knives?? Confidence. I have absolute confidence that they will do anything and everything I'll ask of them in any situation. Are there other knives that are just as strong?? Yeah, if you look enough. Other knives that cut better? Sure. But with Busse you can count on anything coming out of the shop to perform, there are no worries about "did I get a knife with a bad heat treat" "what if I break the tip off when using it as a light prybar" "will it rust in it's sheath and need attention to make sure it's always in good working order?". That's about 90 percent of it right there.

I do like alot of his designs built as straight forward working tools with a few exceptions, and the knives feel great in the hand (especially the discontinued basic series). There are others that are more comfortable, but they work, and they're very secure. A double guard would work better in a stab to prevent the hand from ramping over the blade, but the talons(integral guards at the ricasso and pommel) front and rear are far more comfortable and do a great job without decreasing much of the knife's utility. The lower talon also serves the very important purpose of keeping the knife securely in hand while chopping or cutting even when the grip is compromised by sweat or other fluids(usually in my case bananna tree juice or saltwater). After getting a good feel for the handle you can even reposition your grip on the knife during use without worrying about it slipping out of your grasp.

Tests by Cliff Stamp and others on this forum (to an extent myself, but I've never whacked mine with a hammer) support the first paragraph, and by golly as soon as I held my first one it just felt right. As much as I love hand forged carbon steel the Infi alloy they use really is something else. It lends itself perfectly to knives that need to be used hard and put away wet, corrosion is never a functional issue, and whatever little there is when you find it comes off with a good wipedown. There's also that warranty, unconditional, the few who have had to use it in the past can attest that Busse stands behind their products, and they can do that because the knives perform, and they know it.

 

[Walking Man]

Are there other knives that are just as strong?? Yeah, if you look enough.

I understand that the answer to this question is actually "It hasn't been found yet" There is only ONE other manufacturer of UBERtough knives AFAIK (a very small manufacturer at that) that claims their knives can handle similar extremeties as Busse knives, but I don't think there's ever really been any kind of comparison between the two.

 

[Cobalt]

I understand that the answer to this question is actually "It hasn't been found yet" There is only ONE other manufacturer AFAIK (a very small one at that) that claims their knives can handle similar extremeties as Busse knives, but I don't think there's ever really been any kind of comparison between the two.

actually there are several manufacturers that say their knives are indestructible. However, only four that I know of offer an unconditional guaranty not including Busse or Swamp Rat (that would be 6 that offer the guaranty). One other one has proven itself to adhere to this unconditional warranty. Another I think will as well.

there are probably more as well.

The unconditional guaranty inspires confidence in the users hands. If the guy making the knife firmly believes that it would take only the most extreme circumstance to break or damage his knife, then the person buying his knife will have that much more peace of mind and confidence in using it.

 

[yoda4561]

Like I said, if you look hard enough, you'll find knives that are just as strong. Just as strong and still capable of being used as a cutting tool??? Well that's another matter. Just as strong for the same stock thickness and grind?? Yeah, that's Busse's ballpark

 

[Josh Muller]

first things first about busse combat knives - and about all knives currently made in this day and age.

ww1 "combat knives" were actually made to kill people. when running the enemy line, you had your hand gun and your knife, when you ran out of ammo, you had your knife. in trench warfare, you basically had 2 movements available to you given the tunnel like situation, a stabbing action, and a short slashing action. the knives were made accordingly.


that is not the case today. "combat" does not equal running a line of trenches and killing your apponent by hand. it means shooting from affar at all times, whenever possible. as a result, your knife will, in all likely hood NEVER get used in hand to hand conflict and fighting.





the term "combat" (in regards to a knife) in this day and age essentially means camp knife (though, more accurately utility knife), only generally meant for use in a military setting, specifically cities.

there is the classic line of "new people look at strategy. old hands look at logistics." a knife gets used in combat more often for general utility tasks then for hand to hand fighting by far. and busse creates designs accordingly.

i'm not calling those who make "fighting knives" newbies by any means. you can build a classic "fighting" design strong enough to withstand general utility tasks, and it will make a fine knife. but those who expect that every soldier who carries a knife into a combat zone (read air raids, rifles and grenades, not constant hand to hand fighting in the feild) to be killing his apponents by knife on a regular basis is wrong. it just doesnt happen on a regular basis.

 

[Mordachai]

Wow, It's amazing how fast everyone here jumps up to shout you down. I think that alone shows a bit of the busse quality, and the connection to the blades.(as well as the busse lifestyle!! LOL)

Also I think that all you HOGs need to lighten up a bit. :foot: Yes he might be a knife maker, yes he might not type well, and yes he might be offending you all. But you lose certian inflections on the web( sarcasm, slighted humor, truthfulness, etc) and then you start assuming.... :thumbdn:
(oh great, now I'll be flamed) But really He said he didn't mean to be rude or to flame,.............

but then yes he did go ahead and call them cheap hunting knives and the like.... :thumbdn:

Looks line a cheap hunting knife, not even remotley desighned correctly as a combat blade. Is adversing Hype really that effective?

So anyways, why can't you just tell him the good reasons for the busse blades instead of calling him all kinds of names and telling him to go ____________________....

And Mlovett, as for advertising hype, you need to come around more often, because hype isn't even close to the right word, if you are around a bit more, you'll see it's more likely the customers and users that hype up Busses' blades, not Jerry himself. He seems to be a very humble down to earth person, who as far as I know, welcomes anyone else to test thier knives along side him(subtly knocking down the other makes in the process)



P-gunner and SethMurdoc have very good things to say, read their posts AGAIN!.

Me personally, I don't own a busse, and there's a chance I never will, but I know for sure if I do own one it will be one, not 3 or 16 or 47 busses. There are too many other makers out there, and one busse will chop and cut to hell and back. I think that is the attraction to the knives. There's just something about chopping cinder blocks that get all these guys wet.......


anyhow I have used a busse(actually a few) a friend is a newish busse fanatic, and I think he would own every one that he could afford(and in time I think he just might)

But for such thick heavy blades, they sure do some damn clean work, if it's clearing vines and green shrubs, or chopping down a fallen tree in your way.....

so anyways, let you guys hate what I have to say, or love it, It really doesn't matter to me.

Why cant you be more like the HI forum guys :thumbup: , welcoming newbs with stupid questions, instead of attacking them and making them feel small? Oh, but that is how the WWW goes isn't it?
heh, sometimes I hate the WWW...
|M|

oh, I think this is the first time I've posted in busse forums, uh-oh!

 

[Cobalt]

absolutely correct. but what do we know we like Busse knives

first things first about busse combat knives - and about all knives currently made in this day and age.

ww1 "combat knives" were actually made to kill people. when running the enemy line, you had your hand gun and your knife, when you ran out of ammo, you had your knife. in trench warfare, you basically had 2 movements available to you given the tunnel like situation, a stabbing action, and a short slashing action. the knives were made accordingly.


that is not the case today. "combat" does not equal running a line of trenches and killing your apponent by hand. it means shooting from affar at all times, whenever possible. as a result, your knife will, in all likely hood NEVER get used in hand to hand conflict and fighting.





the term "combat" (in regards to a knife) in this day and age essentially means camp knife (though, more accurately utility knife), only generally meant for use in a military setting, specifically cities.

there is the classic line of "new people look at strategy. old hands look at logistics." a knife gets used in combat more often for general utility tasks then for hand to hand fighting by far. and busse creates designs accordingly.

i'm not calling those who make "fighting knives" newbies by any means. you can build a classic "fighting" design strong enough to withstand general utility tasks, and it will make a fine knife. but those who expect that every soldier who carries a knife into a combat zone (read air raids, rifles and grenades, not constant hand to hand fighting in the feild) to be killing his apponents by knife on a regular basis is wrong. it just doesnt happen on a regular basis.

 

[Josh Muller]

i also left out the tunnel rats of cu-chi from the vietnam era. just one more example of where the knife was used as a primary weapon. again though, in the vietnam conflict, they were a very select (small in number) group. it wasnt the norm. guns and distance were greatly prefered there, as in any conflict.

 

[Progunner]

Wow, It's amazing how fast everyone here jumps up to shout you down. I think that alone shows a bit of the busse quality, and the connection to the blades.(as well as the busse lifestyle!! LOL)

Also I think that all you HOGs need to lighten up a bit. :foot: Yes he might be a knife maker, yes he might not type well, and yes he might be offending you all. But you lose certian inflections on the web( sarcasm, slighted humor, truthfulness, etc) and then you start assuming.... :thumbdn:
(oh great, now I'll be flamed) But really He said he didn't mean to be rude or to flame,.............

but then yes he did go ahead and call them cheap hunting knives and the like.... :thumbdn:
So anyways, why can't you just tell him the good reasons for the busse blades instead of calling him all kinds of names and telling him to go ____________________....

And Mlovett, as for advertising hype, you need to come around more often, because hype isn't even close to the right word, if you are around a bit more, you'll see it's more likely the customers and users that hype up Busses' blades, not Jerry himself. He seems to be a very humble down to earth person, who as far as I know, welcomes anyone else to test thier knives along side him(subtly knocking down the other makes in the process)



P-gunner and SethMurdoc have very good things to say, read their posts AGAIN!.

Me personally, I don't own a busse, and there's a chance I never will, but I know for sure if I do own one it will be one, not 3 or 16 or 47 busses. There are too many other makers out there, and one busse will chop and cut to hell and back. I think that is the attraction to the knives. There's just something about chopping cinder blocks that get all these guys wet.......


anyhow I have used a busse(actually a few) a friend is a newish busse fanatic, and I think he would own every one that he could afford(and in time I think he just might)

But for such thick heavy blades, they sure do some damn clean work, if it's clearing vines and green shrubs, or chopping down a fallen tree in your way.....

so anyways, let you guys hate what I have to say, or love it, It really doesn't matter to me.

Why cant you be more like the HI forum guys :thumbup: , welcoming newbs with stupid questions, instead of attacking them and making them feel small? Oh, but that is how the WWW goes isn't it?
heh, sometimes I hate the WWW...
|M|

oh, I think this is the first time I've posted in busse forums, uh-oh!

You made some good points.

Some on here do react quite quickly and probably let their loyalty to the brand get the best of them. A human failing we all have I suspect. Very good point on the 2 dimensional aspect of internet communications. Emoticons help a little, but they are no substitute for face to face discussion. I think you were dead on about the customers providing more of the hype than Jerry himself does. We are a loyal lot and we love our knives. I am glad that you have had the opportunity to use a Busse knife before discussing them, sometimes that isn't the case. That starts a whole other flame up. I do take issue with your comment about us and the HI guys. There are a good number of us "older" collectors who do welcome new guys and any questions they have. All we can do is step up and answer the new guys questions and disregard some of the less thoughtful comments others have made. Just ask Peter La. Peter buddy where are you when we need you to chime in.

Also thank you for your words reguarding my post. I try to do my best to inform folks new to the brand. I consider Jerry a friend and it would be a disservice to my friend to flame a potential customer. Not too mention, I like helping someone who really wants to know more about the products.

 

[Crushenator 500]

-ignore please-

 

[Cobalt]

Mr. Lovett, I am glad that you did sincerely did not intend to flame as your post suggested. Stick arnd and enjoy the people here. I think you will see that many also enjoy buying customs.

As I said earlier, I really like your designs and have wanted one, but my wife said that I am not allowed to stare and fondle other naked women

 

[rbmcmjr]

Why cant you be more like the HI forum guys :thumbup: , welcoming newbs with stupid questions, instead of attacking them and making them feel small?

Newbies get polite responses (cf. Peter La - man of a thousand questions). _Apparent_ personal attacks get replied to in kind.

oh, I think this is the first time I've posted in busse forums, uh-oh!

Newbie! Seriously, as a boy, I often thought that a Khukri was the coolest thing I'd ever seen. At some point, I hope to see an HI model and learn more about them.

Rick

P.S. You wouldn't happen to have a beautiful niece?

 

[Walking Man]

1.....but then yes he did go ahead and call them cheap hunting knives and the like.... :thumbdn:

2. Why cant you be more like the HI forum guys :thumbup:

1. Actually not true, What he said was the LOOK cheap. A world of difference. This will be addressed.
2. BECAUSE WE ARE NOT THEM. Duh. And unlike the H.I. Khuks, the frequency of a bad heat treat or other imperfection IS MUCH LOWER. Not that I'm comparing, because there are different price points, and I understand the philosophy of H.I. Heck, I have a few myself, I do feel strongly about the supporting the Nepalese. BUT BECAUSE OF THE COST AND KNOWLEDGE NEEDED TO OWN A BUSSE, IT IS EXTREMELY RARE THAT RAW NEWBIES ENTER OUR AREA. We just don't get raw newbies that often, so maybe it's because we're not used it. OR maybe because we've come to demand the best in life, like the VERY best knives, we expect a little more.
I believe that we get less newbies because of the overall cost and looks of Busses. Yes,they are awesome knives, but just don't have the initial WOW factor of other knife manufacturers at similar price points that most newbies would understande. A $100 Best Buy Khukri.... WOW!!!!!...... A Kershaw Outcast..... WOW!!!!. A $100 SK.......... "UM is that all I get for $100?!?!? "
I still can't understand how Peter La managed to make his first high quality knife a Busse. Have you ever owned a KaBar, Peter? Maybe he is MUCH smarter than we all realized.

 

[Walking Man]

Looks line a cheap hunting knife

Sir, I just DO not understand how you can say this, especially since YOU ARE an experienced knifemaker. There are a few things that SCREAM quality beyond the average cheapie
1) It obviously has a nice deep flat grind. All of the cheapies have a shallow hollow grind.
2) Carved micarta handle. It is well textured, How many cheap knives have texturing?
3) Hollow rivets/pins. ALL of the cheap knives have screws. Do you see any screws here?

 

[Walking Man]

Just as strong for the same stock thickness and grind?? Yeah, that's Busse's ballpark

That WHAT I'M TALKING ABOUT! Has it ever been proved? Was it even close?

 

[Desert Dan]

I found out about Busses through word of mouth. I have not seen a whole lot of advertising or articles about them. As a matter of fact, I am surprised that Busse is not getting a lot of run in any of the major knife/gun magazines.
I wish that I would have had some Busses when I did my tour of duty over in Iraq. Granted, it would have only been used for general utilatarian tasks. The likelihood that I would have used it as a weapon would have been rather slim. But I'm sure that my Busse would be up to the task if I had to use it in that manner.
I enjoy this forum and I learn a lot from other Busse users. Progunner and Seth, I really enjoyed your posts in this thread. Very informative.

Dan

 

[barrabas74]

I used the SFNO over the weekend and man was I impressed, cut down several saplings, split white oak(those of you who know what white oak splits like know what I mean), some ash, and some maple. I batoned it and it did very well for a 7 inch blade, and tough wow, the edge rolled near the tip but that was it, I can still shave with half the blade. My uncle got ahold of it and he beat the hell outa it too, tearing down sapligs, digging, cutting rope, cardboard, we did alot to it. sorry guys no dig cam. But other than a rolled edge near the tip wich I think was from a knot, it really really impressed me. Well worth every penny. Oh I was splitting wood and clearing sapplings because we are clearing out blowdowns from the storms that came through on our farm in Northern PA, so had to clear paths to get the Ole International to it and sled em out to sell cuz there pretty fresh. DAMN I LOVE BUSSE!!!!!!!!!!