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What can I do better - Knifemaker's advice needed
- Thread starter Burl Source
- Start date
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- Sep 29, 2009
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- 1,614
My only problem is I am way over stocked at the moment. My wife doesn't understand why you could possibly need more wood. I just do!
Greg
Okay good.. So it's not just me
- Joined
- Nov 24, 2003
- Messages
- 2,357
I'm very happy with the size and quality of your wood. While most of my recent
purchases have been old, heavy redwood burl, I really agree that more stabilized
wood is the single improvement that would matter the most.
I'm much more likely to buy either wood that doesn't need stabilization or stabilized
wood these days. While I do buy wood and have it stabilized (a bit over $600 with
WSSI in the last 12 months, but no more this year), I tend to buy and cut larger
pieces for this. I've got a bit of a backlog drying so really shouldn't buy much more
for quite a while.
Also, I'm pretty unlikely to buy anything less than 1/2" thick for stabilization and really
prefer large blocks or bigger. Smaller stuff has too much chance of warping too much
although I have been mostly lucky so far.
Like several others, I'm really pretty well stocked with wood now.
purchases have been old, heavy redwood burl, I really agree that more stabilized
wood is the single improvement that would matter the most.
I'm much more likely to buy either wood that doesn't need stabilization or stabilized
wood these days. While I do buy wood and have it stabilized (a bit over $600 with
WSSI in the last 12 months, but no more this year), I tend to buy and cut larger
pieces for this. I've got a bit of a backlog drying so really shouldn't buy much more
for quite a while.
Also, I'm pretty unlikely to buy anything less than 1/2" thick for stabilization and really
prefer large blocks or bigger. Smaller stuff has too much chance of warping too much
although I have been mostly lucky so far.
Like several others, I'm really pretty well stocked with wood now.
Hengelo_77
Basic Member
- Joined
- Mar 2, 2006
- Messages
- 6,317
Don't hesitate to sell cutt off bits as well.
1" x 1" x 1" blocks can make interesting spacers. (larger ones as well)
To make it easy, maybe sell it per weight and use it as a way to fill unused space in parcels.
If I would buy some nice blocks of wood and would get the offer:
"For $ X,- I'll throw in a few interesting small pieces for spacers or small knives"
I'd be very interested. It would make me curious to see what I would get and for you they could be teasers or samples of other woods you have for sale.
1" x 1" x 1" blocks can make interesting spacers. (larger ones as well)
To make it easy, maybe sell it per weight and use it as a way to fill unused space in parcels.
If I would buy some nice blocks of wood and would get the offer:
"For $ X,- I'll throw in a few interesting small pieces for spacers or small knives"
I'd be very interested. It would make me curious to see what I would get and for you they could be teasers or samples of other woods you have for sale.
- Joined
- Feb 5, 2010
- Messages
- 3,911
To get back to the point made by Stacey, it should be noted that any change to the business plan has the potential to impact the WHOLE business plan.
A lot of folks here have suggested stabilization. Clearly there is a market for stabilized wood product. But if Mark goes down that road he has to make some tough decisions:
1) What percentage of his stock she he get stabilized?
2) What percentage of each quality/variety does he stabilize?
3) How does he recover the investment in stabilization without impacting the price of non-stabilized product?
4) How does he maintain the quality level of non-stabilized product if a large percentage of teh quality wood gets stabilized?
And so on.
The short answer to all the above is that if he decides to deal in stabilized product he's going to have to build a new business model, which has the potential to piss off his established customer base in order to build a new (read: unknown) customer base.
Likewise, adding variety adds overhead. At present, there is no way to know what the market size is for the varieties he doesn't sell today. I specifically asked for variety, but could not begin to tell you how much I would be willing to buy of any variety. So adding variety means adding carrying costs, with no clear line of sight to recovering those costs.
The good news is that when you add variety your pricing structure can adjust to accommodate the carrying costs.
This is why it takes people several years to get business degrees from college. There are a lot of things that influence the success of any business plan, and if you aren't aware of what those factors are you might as well be gambling.
- Greg
A lot of folks here have suggested stabilization. Clearly there is a market for stabilized wood product. But if Mark goes down that road he has to make some tough decisions:
1) What percentage of his stock she he get stabilized?
2) What percentage of each quality/variety does he stabilize?
3) How does he recover the investment in stabilization without impacting the price of non-stabilized product?
4) How does he maintain the quality level of non-stabilized product if a large percentage of teh quality wood gets stabilized?
And so on.
The short answer to all the above is that if he decides to deal in stabilized product he's going to have to build a new business model, which has the potential to piss off his established customer base in order to build a new (read: unknown) customer base.
Likewise, adding variety adds overhead. At present, there is no way to know what the market size is for the varieties he doesn't sell today. I specifically asked for variety, but could not begin to tell you how much I would be willing to buy of any variety. So adding variety means adding carrying costs, with no clear line of sight to recovering those costs.
The good news is that when you add variety your pricing structure can adjust to accommodate the carrying costs.
This is why it takes people several years to get business degrees from college. There are a lot of things that influence the success of any business plan, and if you aren't aware of what those factors are you might as well be gambling.
- Greg
- Joined
- Nov 24, 2003
- Messages
- 2,357
Mark already does stabilize part of his stock. Yes, stabilizing more would have a ripple
effect on other parts of his business which only he can evaluate. On the other hand,
he's come up front and asked what customers want. Lots of the ones who are
speaking up ask for more stabilized wood. I'd certainly think about that in his shoes.
I almost asked for more variety too -- specifically myrtle burl and maybe stabilized
cedar burl -- but decided not to because I might not buy a lot. On the other hand,
those are two of the things that would be more likely to attract me.
Personally, I like and respect Mark's desire to concentrate on native woods from his
stomping grounds. On the other hand, I might well have bought some of the
Australian woods he was experimenting with if the sizes had been right.
effect on other parts of his business which only he can evaluate. On the other hand,
he's come up front and asked what customers want. Lots of the ones who are
speaking up ask for more stabilized wood. I'd certainly think about that in his shoes.
I almost asked for more variety too -- specifically myrtle burl and maybe stabilized
cedar burl -- but decided not to because I might not buy a lot. On the other hand,
those are two of the things that would be more likely to attract me.
Personally, I like and respect Mark's desire to concentrate on native woods from his
stomping grounds. On the other hand, I might well have bought some of the
Australian woods he was experimenting with if the sizes had been right.
- Joined
- Mar 7, 2009
- Messages
- 254
What about an option to have unstabilized purchases treated? On pieces big enough to stabilize safely, Mark could add a priced option to have the block stabilized. With the caveat that small orders will wait until he has a reasonable shipment to send out for treatment.
This would obviously create a significant delay in delivery, but I can't see it taking longer than finding my round tuit and the cash to send my wood out for treatment myself. It looks like most of us buy most of our wood "for future use", so a delay would not be a big deal.
Another thing I'd like to see is a comparison chart of the various woods. Hardness, toxicity, whether it can be and/or should be stabilized, best finishes, etc.
Doc
This would obviously create a significant delay in delivery, but I can't see it taking longer than finding my round tuit and the cash to send my wood out for treatment myself. It looks like most of us buy most of our wood "for future use", so a delay would not be a big deal.
Another thing I'd like to see is a comparison chart of the various woods. Hardness, toxicity, whether it can be and/or should be stabilized, best finishes, etc.
Doc
Kevin Cross
Knifemaker / Craftsman / Service Provider
- Joined
- Sep 13, 2006
- Messages
- 865
Mark, Great wood and stabilized has now been kicked around enough. I would like to see more book-matched scales.
Kevin
Kevin
- Joined
- Jul 4, 2009
- Messages
- 1,201
As much as I would always like first crack at all of your stock, I think Bladeforums is just one of several websites you can do this at. Maybe you can have a rotation.
Plus, knifemakers aren't the only craftsmen that could use your products. Woodturners, penmakers, silversmiths and metalsmiths, jewelers could all use your stuff and maybe in different sizes as well.
So, Try to sell the wood here, take whatever is left over after a week and move them to knifedogs or jerzee devils or another site along with wood turning or penmaking sites. Then you can start this process all over again.
I know it takes a lot of effort to post these sale threads, handle the money and get everything out the door.
If you want to sell more, don't change a thing about how you conduct your business. You are certainly top-notch!
All you have to do is find more venues and keep at it.
Plus, knifemakers aren't the only craftsmen that could use your products. Woodturners, penmakers, silversmiths and metalsmiths, jewelers could all use your stuff and maybe in different sizes as well.
So, Try to sell the wood here, take whatever is left over after a week and move them to knifedogs or jerzee devils or another site along with wood turning or penmaking sites. Then you can start this process all over again.
I know it takes a lot of effort to post these sale threads, handle the money and get everything out the door.
If you want to sell more, don't change a thing about how you conduct your business. You are certainly top-notch!
All you have to do is find more venues and keep at it.
- Joined
- Dec 7, 2008
- Messages
- 7,187
I guess I had better get back to stabilizing more wood. With better weather now it wont be a problem. I can do a good job stabilizing the woods like maple, buckeye, oak and spalted woods. There are some that tie up my equipment for too long that I would prefer to send out. Mainly Redwood. I can stabilize it with good results but one batch can tie up the equipment for a week.
I have talked to WSSI and K and G. Do you guys have a preference between the 2 companies? Both are very pleasant and good at what they do. I ask so I can know who to make arrangements with.
As for variety. There are more local woods I can start providing. Myrtlewood, Manzanita, Oak burl, Pacific Yew and Oregon Ash. I am also working on more exotics. The guy who got me the Mexican Ironwood burl was here the other day and is working on another batch of Ironwood but this time it will be burl only. At least that is the plan.
How do you guys feel about more Ringed Gidgee and other Australian woods? Is there anything else you like I should try to get?
A couple guys said something about wives feeling you get too much wood. You just have to get them hooked on the unusual stuff as well. I started by making some burl chopsticks which my wife uses in her hair. Then made a few coasters for her coffee cup next to the computer. And a few other small things. Now she is hooked and wants to see whatever new stuff I come across.
I have talked to WSSI and K and G. Do you guys have a preference between the 2 companies? Both are very pleasant and good at what they do. I ask so I can know who to make arrangements with.
As for variety. There are more local woods I can start providing. Myrtlewood, Manzanita, Oak burl, Pacific Yew and Oregon Ash. I am also working on more exotics. The guy who got me the Mexican Ironwood burl was here the other day and is working on another batch of Ironwood but this time it will be burl only. At least that is the plan.
How do you guys feel about more Ringed Gidgee and other Australian woods? Is there anything else you like I should try to get?
A couple guys said something about wives feeling you get too much wood. You just have to get them hooked on the unusual stuff as well. I started by making some burl chopsticks which my wife uses in her hair. Then made a few coasters for her coffee cup next to the computer. And a few other small things. Now she is hooked and wants to see whatever new stuff I come across.
- Joined
- Dec 7, 2008
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- 7,187
I have started following the advice you guys have given me in this thread. Yesterday I finished stabilizing a fresh batch of blocks that I cut to the dimensions (5"+ x 2&1/4" x 1&1/8"+) Ed Caffrey mentioned. This was a batch of atypical spalted maple burl. I have a couple more batches in the works.
Next I will be working on more variety. There are some cool local woods I will cut soon. One that I like but never see anyone use is Black oak burl.
I have a guy working on getting me a couple hundred pounds of ironwood burl. I was also considering getting more of the Australian Ringed Gidgee, Tiger Myrtle and Blackwood.
Next I will be working on more variety. There are some cool local woods I will cut soon. One that I like but never see anyone use is Black oak burl.
I have a guy working on getting me a couple hundred pounds of ironwood burl. I was also considering getting more of the Australian Ringed Gidgee, Tiger Myrtle and Blackwood.
Being a student/begginner at the knife making art, I'd like to add a couple of suggestions.
First I deffinetly would like to thank you for always taking time to give advise and the WIP journals always teach me so much, and I think your websight is well put together also.
+1 on the stabilization services, I have only reciently started using "fancy" woods and have had a bad exp. from another company that sent me an unstabilised piece that had a bad soft spot right in the middle and was competly unusable to me. So I think everyone should have an option to stabilize if they want it.
#2 you have a lot of great blocks, would you consider an option to cut them into...like grips (o.k. that's not the term I'm looking for but you know what I mean?) a lot of us beginners don't have access to the tools to cut them into...grips. I've also bought peices that where sloppily cut (again by others) and it took a lot of extra time and work when I was first getting started to sand them down ant even them out.
I think those improvements would give you quite an edge!
First I deffinetly would like to thank you for always taking time to give advise and the WIP journals always teach me so much, and I think your websight is well put together also.
+1 on the stabilization services, I have only reciently started using "fancy" woods and have had a bad exp. from another company that sent me an unstabilised piece that had a bad soft spot right in the middle and was competly unusable to me. So I think everyone should have an option to stabilize if they want it.
#2 you have a lot of great blocks, would you consider an option to cut them into...like grips (o.k. that's not the term I'm looking for but you know what I mean?) a lot of us beginners don't have access to the tools to cut them into...grips. I've also bought peices that where sloppily cut (again by others) and it took a lot of extra time and work when I was first getting started to sand them down ant even them out.
I think those improvements would give you quite an edge!
- Joined
- Dec 7, 2008
- Messages
- 7,187
I have begun to cut blocks only so the wood can be used for any type of knife.
BUT.................................
When I hear how some of you guys cut blocks into scales it really gets my adrenaline going. I have done some scary stuff but I'll never try to cut scales with a chop saw or radial arm saw. (a couple ways people told me they've been cutting scales) I want you to keep all your fingers so if you are not properly equipped, let me do the cutting for you.
I will cut any blocks you purchase into scales for free.
Just be sure to let me know. I cut them on a bandsaw with a fence and 1 inch blade and then true them up with my drum sander. Only takes me a couple minutes and they are a perfect match.
I also have some very high grade woods coming from Australia as well.
I paid for an order this past weekend. They should arrive in a couple weeks. Mostly Ringed Gidgee but a few others as well. That should help add a little variety.
I have been stabilizing more wood too. My batches are small and some take a long time so there won't be a lot. I will offer them here on the forum first so you guys will get 1st shot at the good stuff. I am still bouncing around ideas for working with WSSI or K&G for some stabilizing but nothing definite yet.
I sure would like to see more makers using wood on folders. The ones I have seen in the for sale section looked great, sold fast and got lots of positive comments. I can easily cut 1/8" scales.
Last edited:
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- Oct 26, 2006
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Mark, as I have suggested to you before, cut your blocks thicker, i.e., 1 1/4" thick. The reason being, should anyone decide to cut them into scales, then stabilize them, any warp can then be sanded flat, and you will still wind up with decent sized scales for contouring.
- Mitch
- Mitch
- Joined
- Dec 7, 2008
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Just a quick recap of changes I am making based on the recommendations you guys have made.
I am cutting a portion of the blocks larger and thicker. Some longer for the razor makers, some wider for large bowies and fighters and some thicker 1&1/8 to 1&1/4 thick for those who like thicker pieces for sculpted handles.
I am importing wood from Australia as well as my usual stuff.
Ringed Gidgee
Yellow Mallee
I have another batch, mostly Exhibition Grade ringed Gidgee that is supposed to show up any day now. The ringed gidgee is as hard and heavy as desert ironwood with excellent figure.
I am trying out the idea of letting people select the blocks they want and sending large batches to K&G for stabilizing. There are currently 2 threads
(buckeye burl
&
redwood burl
)
These are currently running in the supplies section. I picked out some of my very best wood for these threads. Doing it this way I am able to give better prices than before. At least $5 or more cheaper per block. Provided enough people are interested I will continue to offer wood for sale this way. When I send a batch of pre sold blocks I will also send a bunch of extra stuff as well. This way I get the volume price break and will be able to keep some in stock for when people need them immediately.
There is also a weekly give away contest for all who get wood from burl source. Tomorrow's prize is a piece from some cool sycamore I just cut.
People get to enter every time they get wood from us. This will take you to the contest thread.
I am open to any other ideas or anything you feel I have overlooked.
With your help, I can become the sort of wood supplier you want most. Or at least give it a good try.
I am cutting a portion of the blocks larger and thicker. Some longer for the razor makers, some wider for large bowies and fighters and some thicker 1&1/8 to 1&1/4 thick for those who like thicker pieces for sculpted handles.
I am importing wood from Australia as well as my usual stuff.
Ringed Gidgee
Yellow Mallee
I have another batch, mostly Exhibition Grade ringed Gidgee that is supposed to show up any day now. The ringed gidgee is as hard and heavy as desert ironwood with excellent figure.
I am trying out the idea of letting people select the blocks they want and sending large batches to K&G for stabilizing. There are currently 2 threads
(buckeye burl
redwood burl
These are currently running in the supplies section. I picked out some of my very best wood for these threads. Doing it this way I am able to give better prices than before. At least $5 or more cheaper per block. Provided enough people are interested I will continue to offer wood for sale this way. When I send a batch of pre sold blocks I will also send a bunch of extra stuff as well. This way I get the volume price break and will be able to keep some in stock for when people need them immediately.
There is also a weekly give away contest for all who get wood from burl source. Tomorrow's prize is a piece from some cool sycamore I just cut.
People get to enter every time they get wood from us. This will take you to the contest thread.
I am open to any other ideas or anything you feel I have overlooked.
With your help, I can become the sort of wood supplier you want most. Or at least give it a good try.
Last edited:
- Joined
- Nov 8, 2005
- Messages
- 103
I had a bad experience with shrinkage on peice of hardwood that I was assured was dry... So I use stabilized wood exclusively now.
I was about to ask you to get your online store back up and running, but you beat me to the punch... I think that I prefer browsing through a large selection of different species and picking what I really like, rather than having catch a lucky break to be visiting the forums right after you've posted a bunch of stuff... Lots of Folks seem to have the same taste as I do when it comes to wood and I'm running just a step or two behind sometimes.
That being said, I keep comming back to your posts on a regular basis, not just to see what's available, but also to see who is buying the pieces that I'd like to get..
Keep providing a good product at a fair price with excellent service and you'll have clients forever...
I was about to ask you to get your online store back up and running, but you beat me to the punch... I think that I prefer browsing through a large selection of different species and picking what I really like, rather than having catch a lucky break to be visiting the forums right after you've posted a bunch of stuff... Lots of Folks seem to have the same taste as I do when it comes to wood and I'm running just a step or two behind sometimes.
That being said, I keep comming back to your posts on a regular basis, not just to see what's available, but also to see who is buying the pieces that I'd like to get..
Keep providing a good product at a fair price with excellent service and you'll have clients forever...
- Joined
- Jun 27, 2010
- Messages
- 402
That Yellow Mallee is by far my favorite wood that I've looked at so far...anywhere! Amazing!!!