What damages VG-10?

[Roger999]

420HC is barely qualified as a knife steel. Looking at the specs it is in the same league as AUS-4, something a lot of people would abhor having on a knife.

People give credit to the heat treat. While it is good, polishing up a turd doesn't make it any better.

So if a steel is not as good as ZDP-189 or CPM-15V, it is pure crap and not worthy to be called a knife steel?

 

[Ankerson]

420HC is barely qualified as a knife steel. Looking at the specs it is in the same league as AUS-4, something a lot of people would abhor having on a knife.

People give credit to the heat treat. While it is good, polishing up a turd doesn't make it any better.

So what you are trying to say is all those people that owned and used Buck 110's for the past 50 years are wrong.

I have owned 4 myself over the years and I still have one in the attic someplace I think.

 

[pilote]

420HC is barely qualified as a knife steel. Looking at the specs it is in the same league as AUS-4, something a lot of people would abhor having on a knife.

People give credit to the heat treat. While it is good, polishing up a turd doesn't make it any better.

how old are you? it seems most of your posts are just ignorant, trolling statements.

 

[thejamppa]

420 is not bad steel. If its tempered and treated right, its excellent. A good 420 is better than most 440 than you find cheap knives... Buck 420 HC is excellent steel.

 

[J_Curd]

420HC is barely qualified as a knife steel. Looking at the specs it is in the same league as AUS-4, something a lot of people would abhor having on a knife.

I would say the satisfaction of thousands of customers and knives still in use pretty much blows that statement out of the water. For their cost, the Buck 420HC Bos treated blades are a great deal and perform with more expensive knives.

Have you ever used a sharp Buck 110?

While it is good, polishing up a turd doesn't make it any better.

Go trade bicycles with Lance Armstrong and see who wins. I'm sure the superior equipment will ensure your victory.

 

[Josh K]

So if a steel is not as good as ZDP-189 or CPM-15V, it is pure crap and not worthy to be called a knife steel?

Where did I say that?

So what you are trying to say is all those people that owned and used Buck 110's for the past 50 years are wrong.

I have owned 4 myself over the years and I still have one in the attic someplace I think.

Nope. I'm not saying they are wrong, I'm pointing out that 420HC is essentially AUS-4 and people crap all over companies like CRKT because they use it.

how old are you? it seems most of your posts are just ignorant, trolling statements.

Because you've been here since what, July?

I would say the satisfaction of thousands of customers and knives still in use pretty much blows that statement out of the water. For their cost, the Buck 420HC Bos treated blades are a great deal and perform with more expensive knives.

Have you ever used a sharp Buck 110?



Go trade bicycles with Lance Armstrong and see who wins. I'm sure the superior equipment will ensure your victory.

Blows what statement out of the water? Did I ever say that they were dissatisfied? Plenty of people are happy with it, me not being one of them.

That's over simplifying my post, something you're surprisingly bad at.

 

[SuzukiGS750EZ]

I happen to like my 110. And yes softer steels are better for beginners because they are easier to sharpen and dont damage easily but it doesnt mean soft steel is noob steel.

 

[3Guardsmen]

as for performance, buck 420hc blades have 50+ years of it...

So what you are trying to say is all those people that owned and used Buck 110's for the past 50 years are wrong.

Buck has not been using 420HC for the past "50 (+) years!" You guy standing up for Buck's use of 420HC may want to do a little research before posting.

Ask any custom knifemaker to build you an knife, with the exception of a dive knife, out of 420HC and see if they'll do it and what they tell you. Buck puts the best possible heat treatment they can on their 420HC, but at the end of the day, 420HC still has a lower Carbon content than is recommended by any professional knifemaker for a non-maritime use, non-culinary use, cutting instrument!

Regards,
3G

 

[Ankerson]

Buck has not been using 420HC for the past "50 (+) years!" You guy standing up for Buck's use of 420HC may want to do a little research before posting.

Ask any custom knifemaker to build you an knife, with the exception of a dive knife, out of 420HC and see if they'll do it and what they tell you. Buck puts the best possible heat treatment they can on their 420HC, but at the end of the day, 420HC still has a lower Carbon content than is recommended by any professional knifemaker for a non-maritime use, non-culinary use, cutting instrument!

Regards,
3G

Ah Buck has made the 110 for about 50 years, THAT was my statement.

 

[3Guardsmen]

Ah Buck has made the 110 for about 50 years, THAT was my statement.

Well, your statement makes no sense then, since Josh was very specific in his comments about 420HC, not the Buck 110! Asking him if he's saying people who have owned Bucks for the last 50 years are wrong has absolutely no bearing on the conversation or his statements. Nice try though.

Here's your post, in the event you decide to change your mind on what you actually stated:

420HC is barely qualified as a knife steel. Looking at the specs it is in the same league as AUS-4, something a lot of people would abhor having on a knife.

People give credit to the heat treat. While it is good, polishing up a turd doesn't make it any better.

So what you are trying to say is all those people that owned and used Buck 110's for the past 50 years are wrong.

I have owned 4 myself over the years and I still have one in the attic someplace I think.

 

[Ankerson]

Well, your statement makes no sense then, since Josh was very specific in his comments about 420HC, not the Buck 110! Asking him if he's saying people who have owned Bucks for the last 50 years are wrong has absolutely no bearing on the conversation or his statements. Nice try though.

Buck has used some form of 420 Stainless steel in the 110 for the whole time.

 

[3Guardsmen]

Buck has used some form of 420 Stainless steel in the 110 for the whole time.

Wrong again!! That is precisely why you need to do some research before posting in defense of Buck's use of 420HC, unless of course you consider 440C to be "some form of 420 Stainless steel!"

 

[Sal Glesser]

Hi Suzuki,

You can use the knife pretty hard. I think it will surprise you. We've been developing and improving this model for almost 20 years. It's a lot tougher than the name might imply.

sal

 

[Ankerson]

Wrong again!! That is precisely why you need to do some research before posting in defense of Buck's use of 420HC, unless of course you consider 440C to be "some form of 420 Stainless steel!"

Except for limited runs they used 420 of some type.

Yes they had a run of 440A a long time ago and now they have limited edition using S30v and then the custom shop models.

 

[3Guardsmen]

Except for limited runs they used 420 of some type.

Yes they had a run of 440A a long time ago and now they have limited edition using S30v and then the custom shop models.

You may seriously want to stop posting for a little bit, go back and read, and come back when you know what you're talking about!

 

[samhain73]

Except for limited runs they used 420 of some type.

Yes they had a run of 440A a long time ago and now they have limited edition using S30v and then the custom shop models.

Ok while I don't agree with the steel snobs, (P.S. AUS4 is regarded as bad because most/all companies under harden it it to 54-55 RC a problem Buck's 420HC does not have) The 110 was made in 1964 in which the steel was 440C till 1981, in which it was made in 425M. Then it switched to 420HC in 1994. They never used 440A.

 

[PG5768]

420HC is barely qualified as a knife steel. Looking at the specs it is in the same league as AUS-4, something a lot of people would abhor having on a knife.

People give credit to the heat treat. While it is good, polishing up a turd doesn't make it any better.

Buck has not been using 420HC for the past "50 (+) years!" You guy standing up for Buck's use of 420HC may want to do a little research before posting.

Ask any custom knifemaker to build you an knife, with the exception of a dive knife, out of 420HC and see if they'll do it and what they tell you. Buck puts the best possible heat treatment they can on their 420HC, but at the end of the day, 420HC still has a lower Carbon content than is recommended by any professional knifemaker for a non-maritime use, non-culinary use, cutting instrument!

Regards,
3G

Just checked the Buck website, a large percentage of their current production is made with 420HC. Obviously, their knives aren't crap or barely acceptable as cutting instruments. Here is what Joe Talmadge has to say about the 420HC steels:

"440A and its relative peers, 425M, 420HC, 12C27, and 6A are the next group. They can be hardened more than the previous group, for better strength, and they are more wear resistant, though wear resistance is just getting to the point of acceptability. 440A and 12C27 are the leaders of this group, with solid heat treat both perform okay. 12C27 is said to be particularly pure and can perform very well when heat treated properly. 6A trails those two steels, though with its vanadium content, can take a razor edge. 425M and 420HC trail the rest, though the highest-carbon versions of 420HC may compete with next group.

Gin-1, ATS-55, 8A, and 440C comprise the next group. These steels will usually be stronger than the previous group, and more wear-resistant. Generally speaking, they retain excellent stain resistance properties, though ATS-55 sticks out here as not particularly stain resistant. 8A is also worth a mention, with some vanadium content, it can take an extremely sharp edge very easily, but is also the weakest and least wear-resistant of this group."

It seems that the higher carbon 420HC steels (assuming that Buck is using those) with a Bos heat treat are far from crap when produced by Buck. As far as 420HC blades produced by other manufacturers that could be a different story, though.

 

[J_Curd]

420HC from Buck actually does perform alot like the old ATS-55 Spydercos in term of hardness and edge retention, although the 420HC is way more corrosion resistant.

 

[wongKI]

Ok, though I'm a noob here I will say this.
1. How about you guys start a new thread about Buck, 420HC etc. I'm learning a lot, and I think other knifeknoobs will learn a lot too. I recently passed up a Kershaw Skyline for a Delica because of the steel. This info would be a lot more helpful OUTSIDE this thread, where we are discussing VG10.

2. Re:my personal experience with VG-10, this is what WILL and WILL NOT damage it.
Will NOT:
Dropping point first onto wooden floor from 2m.
Dropping point first onto concrete from ~1m. Did blunt the edge though.
Carving wood, making shavings etc.
Prying open biscuit and paint tins with the SPINE.

WILL:
Improper sharpening. (VERY improper, lol)
Dropping tipfirst onto hard surface from shoulder level.
Sharpening at a very thin angle, no secondary bevel or microbevel, and proceeding to carve hard wood.
Prying, especially with tip or edge.

All experience with a D4. I think mine has next to no resale value now.

 

[PG5768]

BTW: Here's a link to the Sticky for Joe Talmadge's thread on "Steel FAQ":

Link

A very interesting read, even though it was last updated in 2005.