What did I find? Who can tell me what this tool is for?

[FortyTwoBlades]

Opposing forces would balance each other out. Using a brake would work better, though, as you mentioned. I've honestly not done much significant research into riving practices, so that contraption was news to me. Looks right handy for the purpose.

 

[Square_peg]

This is the closest I have found:

Bob

This has to be what the tool is. The shape just doesn't make any sense as a froe.

 

[Steve Tall]

No...

I asked the question:
Wouldn't you have to twist the handle of a "knife froe" to split the wood the same way a regular froe splits it?
and your answer was "No".

Just to clarify this, here's a photo showing the way a regular froe splits, with the side of the blade near the edge pushing against one side of the split, and the opposite (dull) side of the blade pushing against the other side of the split:

Imagining a similar photograph with the blade of a "knife froe" in the same position, it seems clear to me that to split the wood in the same way would require a twisting of the "knife froe" handle. (Of course, this would be at a big disadvantage, leverage-wise, compared to the handle of a regular froe.)

That's what I was referring to.

 

[Square_peg]

Exactly why it can't be a froe. As a froe it would have to be batoned and it isn't shaped right for batoning. It's a pruning tool. Chopping off a limb above your head is an inefficient work method. You would need the mass of the thickened edge to have any force.

It's a hacker.

 

[Steve Tall]

I just searched through the "Chronicle" back issues on DVD, and there were a couple pictures of similar (not identical) tools with sockets, and they were identified as "slashers", said to be mainly used in the UK for clearing away brambles and brush when coppicing. The information in the Chronicle is not always correct, and I was initially sceptical about the weight of jblyttle's being too heavy to be swung overhead on a long handle, but maybe the heavier ones were used close to the ground (similar to the American brush hooks).

Some of the slashers shown at TimelessTools (dot co dot uk):

 

[FortyTwoBlades]

I continue to assert that it is unlikely in the extreme for this to be a slasher. The weight and thickness is altogether wrong, and the construction does not quite resemble that of slashers. I continue to think it most likely to be some form of cleaving tool, especially if it bears marks on the spine from repeated impacts.

 

[rjdankert]

Opposing forces would balance each other out. Using a brake would work better, though, as you mentioned. I've honestly not done much significant research into riving practices, so that contraption was news to me. Looks right handy for the purpose.

Here are three examples (with a regular froe) :

Bob

 

[rjdankert]

I asked the question:
Wouldn't you have to twist the handle of a "knife froe" to split the wood the same way a regular froe splits it?
and your answer was "No".

Just to clarify this, here's a photo showing the way a regular froe splits, with the side of the blade near the edge pushing against one side of the split, and the opposite (dull) side of the blade pushing against the other side of the split:

Imagining a similar photograph with the blade of a "knife froe" in the same position, it seems clear to me that to split the wood in the same way would require a twisting of the "knife froe" handle. (Of course, this would be at a big disadvantage, leverage-wise, compared to the handle of a regular froe.)

That's what I was referring to.

First, my original reply was was to a statement that leverage could not be applied with a knife froe.

I guess I'm not sure what you mean by "to split the wood the same way a regular froe splits it".

Will a knife froe exert leverage like a regular froe does? I don't know why not.

Will a knife froe follow the long fibers in wood as easily as a knife froe? I don't really know. Is this important? I guess that depends on the application the stave will be used for. Besides, if one had to twist a knife froe to use it, who would want to?

Sorry for the crude illustration, but here is what I am referring to:

Green arrow direction (up and down) gives leverage to split the workpiece. Red arrow direction (rotation) has virtually no leverage.

Bob

 

[Steve Tall]

...I guess I'm not sure what you mean by "to split the wood the same way a regular froe splits it"...

What doesn't make sense to you in this previous explanation I gave about "the way a regular froe splits":
"...Just to clarify this, here's a photo showing the way a regular froe splits, with the side of the blade near the edge pushing against one side of the split, and the opposite (dull) side of the blade pushing against the other side of the split."

Re-reading it, I guess I left out some detail about how the regular froe is essentially in contact with the full width of both faces of the wood (while a "knife froe" being moved in the direction of the green arrows would be tending to contact just the side of one face and the other side of the opposite face.

I also said previously said that "Another option with a "knife froe" could be to pry the handle in a sideways direction" (like the green arrows show), but to me this has significant disadvantage when compared to the regular froe handle orientation.

I asked the question:
Wouldn't you have to twist the handle of a "knife froe" to split the wood the same way a regular froe splits it?
and your answer was "No".

Just to clarify this, here's a photo showing the way a regular froe splits, with the side of the blade near the edge pushing against one side of the split, and the opposite (dull) side of the blade pushing against the other side of the split:

Imagining a similar photograph with the blade of a "knife froe" in the same position, it seems clear to me that to split the wood in the same way would require a twisting of the "knife froe" handle. (Of course, this would be at a big disadvantage, leverage-wise, compared to the handle of a regular froe.)

That's what I was referring to.

 

[rjdankert]

What doesn't make sense to you in this previous explanation I gave about "the way a regular froe splits". . .

I did not say it did not make sense.

. . .Re-reading it, I guess I left out some detail about how the regular froe is essentially in contact with the full width of both faces of the wood (while a "knife froe" being moved in the direction of the green arrows would be tending to contact just the side of one face and the other side of the opposite face. . .

Yes, I agree contact is different. Is that what was meant by a knife froe not splitting "... the wood the same way a regular froe splits it"?

. . .I also said previously said that "Another option with a "knife froe" could be to pry the handle in a sideways direction" (like the green arrows show), but to me this has significant disadvantage when compared to the regular froe handle orientation.

I have never said anything about an advantage.

"my original reply was was to a statement that leverage could not be applied with a knife froe".

But, since it was brought up, what is the "significant disadvantage" of a knife froe? I believe a knife froe was used to rive smaller blanks used for file handles, knife handles, etc.

Bob

 

[Old Axeman]

Steve Tall is correct about the way the leverage is applied to rive using a regular froe. There is the belief that you can change the direction the split is headed by changing the froe handle from lifting up or pushing down. I have found that changing the split direction most times does not work. Only the wood gets to decide what it is going to do when you split it. Knife froe or a hack knife could be used to split (not rive) short sticks, but why is this thing so large if that was its intended use? I say keep looking, knife froe is not the answer.

 

[Steve Tall]

... what is the "significant disadvantage" of a knife froe?

What I wrote was, "Another option with a "knife froe" could be to pry the handle in a sideways direction" (like the green arrows show), but to me this [prying the handle in a sideways direction] has significant disadvantage when compared to the regular froe handle orientation."

A significant disadvantage of a knife froe, when used this way, was already described by me earlier in this thread, but I will add some more detail, and then I'm done. As mentioned earlier, the workpiece is not contacted by the "knife froe" across both faces of the wood; instead it's essentially contacted by the froe at one edge of each face of the wood being rived. The result is a "torqueing" or twisting of the workpiece (instead of a "bending" of the workpiece as with a regular froe.) The twisting doesn't contribute as directly to the splitting of the wood, compared with the prying action of a regular froe. More energy would be spent in opposition to the restraining forces that hold the workpiece for a "knife froe", when compared with a regular froe, to get the same splitting result. It's complicated to explain, but if you try both of the methods (for the example with the green arrows), I think you would readily see the difference is not insignificant.

 

[jblyttle]

This has to be what the tool is. The shape just doesn't make any sense as a froe.

The only two pieces of evidence that suggest otherwise are the strike marks on the spine and that mine has a shorter unpinned socket design which makes me think that the connection would not last long with swinging impacts.

But, I have not yet seen a closer match so I can't say that you are wrong. It fits with a couple different ideas but none exactly. So far...

 

[not2sharp]

Slashers, typically, are about the thickness of a heavy duty machete. 1/8" thick or a little above if it's one with a forged-in taper from edge to spine. They're mostly used on fairly thin brambles and young woody growth as thick as a drinking straw and similar, so they don't have to be super heavy. Think of it as the Euro version of a ditch bank blade.

I believe that I have a couple of old slasher's in my collection that are at least 1/4" thick. I still think that the OP's knife would fall somewhere under the category of billhook or bush hook, depending on the type intended use and handle length.

n2s

 

[rjdankert]

. . . The shape just doesn't make any sense as a froe.

I think it is also unlikely some type of froe, however...

The only two pieces of evidence that suggest otherwise are the strike marks on the spine. . .

I don't think marks on the spine are necessarily evidence of a froe. Mine has no marks, and won't through use as long as I have it. Here is what I use to start the froe:

But, you never know how others might treat them.

. . .and that mine has a shorter unpinned socket design which makes me think that the connection would not last long with swinging impacts. . .

I may have misinterpreted your statement, but I didn't understand "swinging impacts". A froe wouldn't be swung.

. . .But, I have not yet seen a closer match so I can't say that you are wrong. It fits with a couple different ideas but none exactly. So far...

I'm with you on that bud. Unfortunately.


BTW, if this thing does get identified, what are you going to do with it?

Bob

 

[jblyttle]

I may have misinterpreted your statement, but I didn't understand "swinging impacts". A froe wouldn't be swung.


Bob

Right, I was referring to it not being a long poled swinging tool.

 

[jblyttle]

BTW, if this thing does get identified, what are you going to do with it?

Bob

Probably carve about a 12 inch handle for it and display it.

 

[300Six]

For all we know it's a one off. Some crafty grounds maintenance shop worker dreamed and cobbled this together one quiet winter's day thinking it would be handy for edging roots and turf along paths and sidewalks. The implement might have been set up to use broken shovel handles.

What were the circumstances of where, when, why and what all tools/gear/equipment was this accompanied by/with when you came across this JB?

 

[Square_peg]

For all we know it's a one off. Some crafty grounds maintenance shop worker dreamed and cobbled this together one quiet winter's day thinking it would be handy for edging roots and turf along paths and sidewalks.

Good point. The socket certainly shows signs that it may have been hand forged. Look back at the first picture.

 

[jblyttle]

For all we know it's a one off. Some crafty grounds maintenance shop worker dreamed and cobbled this together one quiet winter's day thinking it would be handy for edging roots and turf along paths and sidewalks. The implement might have been set up to use broken shovel handles.

What were the circumstances of where, when, why and what all tools/gear/equipment was this accompanied by/with when you came across this JB?

An old hardware store and lumberyard in town closed and they had an estate sale. This place, about 2 miles from my house. Lots of treasures in there in hidden corners, but the tool is older than that business to be sure.

http://hanover.wickedlocal.com/article/20151121/NEWS/151129811