What do makers carry?

[LX_Emergency]

the only maker that ive asked that very same question to gave me this as a reply: "my knives are too expensive for me to carry".. he is a master smith and makes all high end very well made prong horn style knives, swords, kitchen knives and folders..

I can certainly understand that. If I'd be making $2300 US knives and having the same kind of income that I do now I wouldn't be able to afford keeping it either.

My answer to why I wouldn't use one of my own would be something along the lines of: Because my family likes to eat food.

At the moment Although I'm a (very) smalltime maker I sometimes carry stuff I make. A small fixed blade here and there. It's fun to carry my own work. On the other hand because I'm also a knife lover and a lover a variety I also carry other people's work and often something made by a production company.

Why? Because using different things is fun. And to hell with me HAVING to carry something of mine. I will sometimes....and I won't often.

 

[Cliff Parker]

Cliff
Love your corvette but I like your wifes camaro better.
Gary

Thanks Gary,

Lot of people like hers better . Hers is a savings account I like to think mine as being a 401k

Take care

 

[Cliff Parker]

It doesn't matter much to me whether a maker carries his own, another maker's or a production knife because people choose the knife they carry for all sorts of reasons. Perhaps for sentimental reasons or even that it simply feels good or fits just right in the pocket.
I carry two production knives the most because they were both given to me by good friends so they mean a lot to me.

It bothers me more when makers don't subscribe to knife magazines, don't join knife organizations, don't participate in knife benefit projects and bitch about everything positive others do. You know, the old take, take, take but never give back syndrome.

So what if Don doesn't carry a Hanson knife, the man supports custom knives in every way he can. There's certainly others who don't.

Very well said Kevin

Cliff Parker

 

[Rossi Knives]

I can't really afford my own knives.

It is not that I don't trust my own craftsmanship. I have tested many of my knives to distruction as I am sure that any good knifemaker has. I was a collector before I was a maker, so I continue to covet factory knives as well as customs. The reason I got into custom knifemaking was because I couldn't afford customs. It seems like all of my knives end up sold to pay bills or to but Big Block parts. I do have a huge 8670 Kopis that I made and keep by the door, but that is hardly a "carry" knife.

I do have a framelock project that I am chipping away at that will be my carry when I am in the state of Maine. I travel pretty much half the time for my day job so I have a somewhat disposable folder for on the road. I won't cry too much if TSA pinches it.

It is a CQC8 cut down to the 50 state legal 2.5" blade, groovy scales and glow dots.

 

[Karl B. Andersen]

As pathetic as it may seem, I am currently carrying a fantastic knife by Chuck Gedraitus. A D2 blade with Ringed Gidgee scales.
Just because I'm a maker certainly doesn't separate me from those who enjoy the fruits of other maker's labors!
I probably appreciate those "fruits" better than those who do not make knives, actually.
I carry two different belt knives that I made during the hunting months of the year, but this new one from Chuck really pleases me.
I traded Damascus with Chuck for the honor of carrying one of his knives.
When I got it in the mail I was giddy as a little kid at Christmas!!
There's a whole world of knives out there - we should enjoy them all.

 

[Don Hanson III]

It doesn't matter much to me whether a maker carries his own, another maker's or a production knife because people choose the knife they carry for all sorts of reasons. Perhaps for sentimental reasons or even that it simply feels good or fits just right in the pocket.
I carry two production knives the most because they were both given to me by good friends so they mean a lot to me.

It bothers me more when makers don't subscribe to knife magazines, don't join knife organizations, don't participate in knife benefit projects and bitch about everything positive others do. You know, the old take, take, take but never give back syndrome.

So what if Don doesn't carry a Hanson knife, the man supports custom knives in every way he can. There's certainly others who don't.

Thank you, Kevin!

Not carrying your own knives, is kind of like the Shoe Maker's kids goin barefoot...

 

[SharpByCoop]

Just to add some more fuel to the discussion, I fully understand about makers not being able to 'afford' their own knives. Well, sorta.....

No where in the rules does it state you have to carry a $1000, $2000, or $8000 knife. I suspect EVERY maker is capable of crafting a simple 3-piece fixed blade and finding a sheath for it.

There you go. It's a using knife of your making, and will probably open plenty of cardboard boxes to serve you nicely. (That's all I need a knife for at my studio.)

Coop

 

[RogerP]

The problem - such as it is - is the mixed message carrying a production knife sends to the buying public. Educating the public on the value of custom versus production knives is one of the greater hurdles to bringing more buyers / collectors into the custom fold. If you've got an ABS Master Smith at a show with a trio of $600 to $800 carbon steel hunting knives on his table and a customer walks up and askes why they cost so much, no doubt the maker could explain the benefits of hand forging to shape, careful heat treating, hand grinding and finishing, meticulous attention to blade geometry, selecting premium natural handle materials, how he stands behind his work for life and how, with proper care, one of his knives will last for generations.

"Wow, pretty impressive," thinks the customer. Then he glances over to the maker's hand-tooled leather belt with its big bright silver coboy buckle and asks "What's that you're carrying on your hip?"

"Oh that?" responds the MS - "That's my $50 Buck hunting knife! It's my favourite! Carried it for years and it's never let me down. My dear Pappy, God rest his soul, carried the same model his whole life!"

You all tell me - what's that customer's next purchase likely to be? Substitue any custom versus production example you want and the resut is the same. A maker selling high end custom chef / kithhen knives that uses a $20 WalMart set i a plastic block in his own kitchen? The optics kind of suck.

I'm not trying to disparage any custom maker who chooses to carry a production knife for whatever reason. Certainly, makers in this thread that I know and admire - like Senor Hanson - make knives of unsurpassed quality that will be coveted by collectors regardless of what's in their own pocket. I just ask that you consider the very positive endorsement of your own product in particular - and custom knives in general - that can be presented by carrying your own work.

And don't think that carrying and using the knife means you can't sell it. A lot of guys find a maker's personal knife a really appealing buy. Of all the knives in my collection (which are pretty damned nice, if I do say so myself) the one with the longest line of fellow collectors wanting to make it their own is a damscus hunter that I liberated from the hip of Burt Foster a couple years ago. It had been used by him for nearly a year at that point, and has been used regularly by me ever since.

Finally, with respect to those who claim differently, if you are a full time maker and you ar telling me that, amortized over your entire knifemaking career, you can afford neither the time nor the materials to make and carry one of your own knives, well... all I can say is you really need to take another close and careful look at the math.

Roger

 

[John T Wylie Jr]

if you are a full time maker and you ar telling me that, amortized over your entire knifemaking career, you can afford neither the time nor the materials to make and carry one of your own knives, well... all I can say is you really need to take another close and careful look at the math.

At a couple shows I have been to , I have seen the following happen at least 3 or 4 times.
Customer spots the maker carrying one of his own knives , inquires to see it , then offers to buy it , maker says he can't sell it as he has been using it for X number of years/months and it's his carry knife. Customer gets annoyed that the maker won't sell.

In one case the maker did sell it , the other two the maker told me after the customer left why he didn't sell , both reasons were similar , the knife was used and had scuffs and marks from use , makers concern was customer would then show all his "new" knife , leaving out the part about it being used and carried by the maker , and falsely representing the as "new".

A few makers have told me , they won't carry their personal carry knife at shows just for that reason , customers can be persistent , and don't like to be told " Not for sale ".

I have never heard any maker talk down on another maker for not carrying his own work , until this thread.

 

[Kevin Jones]

The CKCA auctioned off the 34th knife that lifetime founding member Tim Hancock made at our recent annual Banquet/Mini-Show at Blade Show. Tim had carried this small fixed-blade and sheath for 15 years. Needless to say this knife generated a lot of excitement.
It was a very generous gesture on Tim's part and I'm sure it would have been easier for Tim to have parted with one of his new knives than this old friend.

All the proceeds from the knife's auction went towards our Lung Cancer Research project.

 

[dbl-edge]

The problem - such as it is - is the mixed message carrying a production knife sends to the buying public. Educating the public on the value of custom versus production knives is one of the greater hurdles to bringing more buyers / collectors into the custom fold. If you've got an ABS Master Smith at a show with a trio of $600 to $800 carbon steel hunting knives on his table and a customer walks up and askes why they cost so much, no doubt the maker could explain the benefits of hand forging to shape, careful heat treating, hand grinding and finishing, meticulous attention to blade geometry, selecting premium natural handle materials, how he stands behind his work for life and how, with proper care, one of his knives will last for generations.

"Wow, pretty impressive," thinks the customer. Then he glances over to the maker's hand-tooled leather belt with its big bright silver coboy buckle and asks "What's that you're carrying on your hip?"

"Oh that?" responds the MS - "That's my $50 Buck hunting knife! It's my favourite! Carried it for years and it's never let me down. My dear Pappy, God rest his soul, carried the same model his whole life!"

You all tell me - what's that customer's next purchase likely to be? Substitue any custom versus production example you want and the resut is the same. A maker selling high end custom chef / kithhen knives that uses a $20 WalMart set i a plastic block in his own kitchen? The optics kind of suck.

I'm not trying to disparage any custom maker who chooses to carry a production knife for whatever reason. Certainly, makers in this thread that I know and admire - like Senor Hanson - make knives of unsurpassed quality that will be coveted by collectors regardless of what's in their own pocket. I just ask that you consider the very positive endorsement of your own product in particular - and custom knives in general - that can be presented by carrying your own work.

And don't think that carrying and using the knife means you can't sell it. A lot of guys find a maker's personal knife a really appealing buy. Of all the knives in my collection (which are pretty damned nice, if I do say so myself) the one with the longest line of fellow collectors wanting to make it their own is a damscus hunter that I liberated from the hip of Burt Foster a couple years ago. It had been used by him for nearly a year at that point, and has been used regularly by me ever since.

Finally, with respect to those who claim differently, if you are a full time maker and you ar telling me that, amortized over your entire knifemaking career, you can afford neither the time nor the materials to make and carry one of your own knives, well... all I can say is you really need to take another close and careful look at the math.

Roger

Thank you, Roger!

 

[RogerP]

At a couple shows I have been to , I have seen the following happen at least 3 or 4 times.
Customer spots the maker carrying one of his own knives , inquires to see it , then offers to buy it , maker says he can't sell it as he has been using it for X number of years/months and it's his carry knife. Customer gets annoyed that the maker won't sell.

In one case the maker did sell it , the other two the maker told me after the customer left why he didn't sell , both reasons were similar , the knife was used and had scuffs and marks from use , makers concern was customer would then show all his "new" knife , leaving out the part about it being used and carried by the maker , and falsely representing the as "new".

A few makers have told me , they won't carry their personal carry knife at shows just for that reason , customers can be persistent , and don't like to be told " Not for sale ".

Well that hasn't been my experience. Have any other makers out there encountered a series of disgruntled customers who wanted your belt knife and only your belt knife and walked away mad 'cause you wouldn't sell it to them?

I have more often seen that exchange result in an order for a similar knife, not a lost, unhappy customer.

And I'm pretty sure most customers buying a used knife off a maker's belt are expecting scuffs and such. And the resale point is a bit of a red herring. The maker has no control over the resale of his work, whether he sells a new or a used knife. What if the customer buys a new knife from him, uses it for a year, gives it a quick Flitz and resells it as new? Does that mean the maker should be hesitant to sell his new knives, too?

Roger

 

[Cliff Parker]

.


I have never heard any maker talk down on another maker for not carrying his own work , until this thread.[/QUOTE]

Ya John,
It's a shame isn't it. But that's why we live in the good old USA. We can say what we want, carry what we choose and get away with it.

Cliff Parker

 

[John T Wylie Jr]

"Wow, pretty impressive," thinks the customer. Then he glances over to the maker's hand-tooled leather belt with its big bright silver coboy buckle and asks "What's that you're carrying on your hip?"

"Oh that?" responds the MS - "That's my $50 Buck hunting knife! It's my favourite! Carried it for years and it's never let me down. My dear Pappy, God rest his soul, carried the same model his whole life!"

You all tell me - what's that customer's next purchase likely to be? Substitue any custom versus production example you want and the resut is the same. A maker selling high end custom chef / kithhen knives that uses a $20 WalMart set i a plastic block in his own kitchen? The optics kind of suck.

I'm not trying to disparage any custom maker who chooses to carry a production knife for whatever reason.

Sorry , but I disagree , you certainly are doing exactly that. What if that maker is carrying that Buck to pay homeage to his father ? Who has the right to judge his choice ? Him and him alone.

So the chef that cooks all day , yet grabs take-out on the way home is held in the same light ?

I think many are putting way too much into what others do , if a maker wants to carry his own work , that is up to him , if he wants to carry a production , it's up to him , if he wants to carry a knife mafe by another maker ( or a friend ) , how does anyone have the nerve to tell him differently ?

As far as the earlier comment about a maker being pathetic for not carrying his own work , sounds more like ego then common sense talking.

 

[on_the_edge]

You all tell me - what's that customer's next purchase likely to be? Substitue any custom versus production example you want and the resut is the same. A maker selling high end custom chef / kithhen knives that uses a $20 WalMart set i a plastic block in his own kitchen? The optics kind of suck.

Roger,
With all due respect, I disagree that the result will be the same here in every case. Maybe I stand alone here, but I do not want to be like Don Hanson, David Broadwell, or any other custom maker for that matter. That is a lot different than saying I don't want to own their knives; it's quite the contrary and, as such, I don't honestly care what they carry. They can carry their production knife and I can carry their custom work. I may ask them why they carry a production knife or why they do not carry their own work, but that is just to satisfy my own curiousity. The only way their answer will impact me is if they say, "well, to be honest, my work is not very good". I don't think that is going to happen.

I do respect and understand David's point and think it has merit, but Don's position also has equal merit. I think there are many good and valid reasons a custom maker might want to carry a production knife, such as...

I got this knife from my grandfather when he passed away. It's a reminder of him; or

I got this from my son for my birthday; or

I tend to lose things and I don't want to lose a $500+ custom; or

I like variety, carrying something different every day as it gives me the chance to see how other knives and knife designs might have something to contribute to my own knives...etc.

Each of these reasons say something good about a maker's character, just as carrying your own work also says something good about the maker. There is no right or wrong here though, no better or worse; just different.

 

[RogerP]

Sorry , but I disagree , you certainly are doing exactly that. What if that maker is carrying that Buck to pay homeage to his father ? Who has the right to judge his choice ? Him and him alone.

So the chef that cooks all day , yet grabs take-out on the way home is held in the same light ?

I think many are putting way too much into what others do , if a maker wants to carry his own work , that is up to him , if he wants to carry a production , it's up to him , if he wants to carry a knife mafe by another maker ( or a friend ) , how does anyone have the nerve to tell him differently ?

As far as the earlier comment about a maker being pathetic for not carrying his own work , sounds more like ego then common sense talking.

Disagree as you please - its a free-ish forum. If you choose to take my comments as disparaging, go right ahead. I have long since abandoned trying to reason with the unreasonable.

It is ever the facile resort of those who won't accept a contrary opinion to start complaining about being "judged", wrap themselves in a flag of strident independence and then shout really loudly. I have passed judgment on no-one. I have said that a custom maker carrying a production knife sends a mixed message to a potential buyer of custom knives - nothing more. Nothing less.

Nobody is suggesting that a maker isn't free to carry what he chooses. And if you could point to where I suggested that a maker can't carry what he chooses, I'd be grateful. Actually, I'd be amazed, since I sure didn't say that.

Roger

PS - I've always thought quoting oneself to be an act of intellectual masturbation, but since you have claimed that I am disparaging makers who don't carry their own work, let's examine the portion of my post you chose NOT to quote:

Certainly, makers in this thread that I know and admire - like Senor Hanson - make knives of unsurpassed quality that will be coveted by collectors regardless of what's in their own pocket. I just ask that you consider the very positive endorsement of your own product in particular - and custom knives in general - that can be presented by carrying your own work.

I hope that some day collectors would speak so disparagingly of my work.

 

[Stubai]

With the bizarre economy today, it is no wonder that folk are heading over to Wal Mart to secure a Buck 119. This knife is most certainly NOT a work of art when contrasted with the vast majority of custom blades...but it is inexpensive and works for the job at hand. And yes, I have witnessed a ton of makers that use a 110 or other slip joint or multi-tool. I watched one maker open an ammo box with a cheap box cutter as the would-be buyers gazed in utter amazement.

Roger, your mixed message concept should be codified and refined whilst being taught in this forum. If I see a maker not using or wearing his own creation, I am not apt to buy a knife from him. Where is his endorsement? Moreover, how does the customer know that this supposed custom wonder knife cuts any better than a fiskars fillet knife? A custom blade should, by all accounts, out perform other knives while looking the part of a silver screen beauty in the process!

The majority of knife users fall into the + or - 4 standard deviations curve...why not set out to create a custom product that falls out of those specified ranges? Be proud of your own creation, wear it and sell it, then quickly repeat the process while trying not to bash the creation of other makers. It might be a good idea to hide the SAK cleanly in your pocket while you attend the gun show.

 

[RogerP]

Roger,
With all due respect, I disagree that the result will be the same here in every case. Maybe I stand alone here, but I do not want to be like Don Hanson, David Broadwell, or any other custom maker for that matter. That is a lot different than saying I don't want to own their knives; it's quite the contrary and, as such, I don't honestly care what they carry. They can carry their production knife and I can carry their custom work. I may ask them why they carry a production knife or why they do not carry their own work, but that is just to satisfy my own curiousity. The only way their answer will impact me is if they say, "well, to be honest, my work is not very good". I don't think that is going to happen.

I do respect and understand David's point and think it has merit, but Don's position also has equal merit. I think there are many good and valid reasons a custom maker might want to carry a production knife, such as...

I got this knife from my grandfather when he passed away. It's a reminder of him; or

I got this from my son for my birthday; or

I tend to lose things and I don't want to lose a $500+ custom; or

I like variety, carrying something different every day as it gives me the chance to see how other knives and knife designs might have something to contribute to my own knives...etc.

Each of these reasons say something good about a maker's character, just as carrying your own work also says something good about the maker. There is no right or wrong here though, no better or worse; just different.

Chris, I haven't suggested that a maker may not have good reasons to carry a production knife, or that he isn't entitled to do so.

And please, I most certainly HAVE NOT suggested that I wouldn't want to own a maker's work because he didn't carry his own knife.

I have suggested that carrying a production knife sends a mixed message. The guy seeing a custom maker carry and use a production knife may not be aware of the personal, sentimental reasons the maker has for doing so. Indeed, it's all but certain he won't be aware of them. But what he sees is that for actual use and carry, a production knife is "good enough" for that maker. Why shouldn't it be "good enough" for the customer, too?

Of course this isn't going to impact a maker like Don Hanson. But as I'm sure you will agree - not all makers are Don Hanson, nor do they occupy his admirable and enviable market position.

Roger

 

[John T Wylie Jr]

Disagree as you please - its a free-ish forum. If you choose to take my comments as disparaging, go right ahead. I have long since abandoned trying to reason with the unreasonable.

I was merely discussing , and no I won't take to light your jab at calling me unreasonable , you gotta try a lot harder than that to start a pissing match with me. However , it does seem that you are the one who has a major issue with anyone who does not agree with your view.

It is ever the facile resort of those who won't accept a contrary opinion to start complaining about being "judged", wrap themselves in a flag of strident independence and then shout really loudly.

So perhaps , you yourself could live by your own words.

Either way , I am not here to argue with you , so we will have to agree to disagree , I listen to your points and your views and respect them , however I may not all agree with all of them ( many I do , but not all ).

Fair enough ?

In the end , it sounds as though we both agree , if the maker chooses to carry or not carry on of his own , that is a choice that is up to him.

Either way , none of us should read any more into in than just that , his / her choice.

 

[on_the_edge]

Why shouldn't it be "good enough" for the customer, too?

Roger

Because the customer and the maker are different people. Why should anyone suppose that the customer would own/carry/use/display a maker's work for the same reason that a maker would? What is "good enough" for the maker may not be at all good enough for me.