What do you guys do with your fighting knives?

All other definitions be damned. In all, the fighting knife is likely to be the utility knife you carry most often, most likely to have at the time and the one you are most deft and confident at using. Better than the $5000 custom fitted super stabber you have at home.

Anyhow, I like the sharpened back edge very, very much. My EDC fixed blade does have a sharp back edge. I use it to rip open boxes, cardboard etc. when I don't want things like staples, nails and other nasties to nick up the main edge - can save that for other more serious tasks. Also a chisel-ground top edge is fantastic for making accurate marking, score cuts in the workshop. Well, thats most of the fighting I do these days.

On the issue of fighting best with the knife you use most often. MAKE SURE YOU PRACTISE WITH THE KNIFE YOU THINK YOU'LL USE IN A FIGHT. I have seen too many practitioners train extremely well with a 6inch mock blade, then forget that their "real" blade is 8inches in the blade. They forget or can't accomodate that in their hand / body movements and end up with various self-inflicted nicks and cuts on opposite forearms, in the thighs, even in the love handles. Anything can happen under stress. It would be equally embarassing to completely miss the target with your real knife because your muscle memory was with a different blade shape / length.

Also, if you train with a single edge and use a full-on double edge in real-life, please don't ramp your thumb along the spine of the blade. Yes, on a double edged - WHAT SPINE ? And whats that blood ... Ow ! :rolleyes:

Had to get that off my chest. Cheers. Jason.
 
Cougar Allen: Someone has shown you the way of the long knives along the way I see. Good, very good understanding of the damage one can create with the swedge.

Ebbtide: Good analogy

the possum: It's not that the Belle is the best at everything, it's the best I've seen [ for many reasons ] as a pure fighter. It's not he best chopper [specialized use ], it isn't the best stabber [ specialized use ], it is the best compromise [ Bowie types ]one can use in a figth for ones life [ if you have been trained in it's use and understand the mechanics of blade work with the long knives ].

You are certainly welcome to join us in California in Novemner as Bruz has offered with the link. Be warned that we will be concentrating on tactical folders that are EDC's for the moast part though.

There are many good knifemakers out there churning out good Bowies. I've seen some real good ones and own a few myself. Most are better at chopping, some better at slashing. Most have much shorter blades than my Belle and weigh considerably more at the same time. Thats what makes them better choppers or slashers.

Slashing techniques needed to be effective could include weight, edge geometry, length of edge, the power of the stroke, etc. Some deigns rely on weight, others geometry of the edge. The Belle's deign relies on it's being where it needs to be before the others blade can harm you or being able to see a small window open and get there as well before the window closes. It does these things very well through speed which is built into the knife.

It gives up some chopping abilty over heavier blades in a pure sense but it gives up nothing defensively. If I want to chop with it, it will cleave an arm fairly quickly. It won't do this through weight, but instead through speed at the moment of impact. Knife fights are dynamic, fluid, constantly changing by their very nature. Anything that is better at keeping up with these characteristics will be better at defending you.

I've carried it for protection on several ocassions concealed [ I can do that in my state ]. The knife is alive in the hands of one who knows how to weild them. Yes, I was talking personal defense. If I were back in the Corps and in Iraq for serious business, the Belle would be with me at all times. When it came down to hand to hand, it wouldn't be, as they would be missing their hands post haste. :D

The kabar issued would be opening rats [ rations ], digging and general purpose things that needed an edge or point.

Brownie
 
There are definitely other smiths that are making excellent fighting knives. Among them, Jimmie Buckner (he learned from Bill Bagwell), Jerry Fisk and John M. Smith.

Jason, don't forget that on a fighting Bowie only the clip is sharpened, so you have a fair bit of the spine that you can place your thumb on without worry of damage.

In my opinion the Bowie is the overall best fighting knife. Properly made, it has the reach, balance and size to work as well or better than any other knife. Its main disadvantage is in its size; it is not easy to carry discretely.
 
Keith Montgomery: Jimmie Buckner makes some great long knives. Met him with Bill at one of the riddles down south years ago. His knives were right alongside Bills on the table.

This class was long knife techniques for two days with Keating and Bagwell instructing. I agree with your assessment of the bowie as a fighter design par excellence.

Brownie
 
I walk around town and pick knife fights with the bums on the street, they're pretty viscious fighters :D

Seriously though, I don't buy ultra-specialized combat knives simply because I have no practical use for them, if it hits the fan, my utility/tacticals should be fine.
Besides, if I wanted a specialized "blade" for close combat scenarios, my choice would be a good Tomahawk.
 
Originally posted by Cougar Allen
Possum, you have to try the back cut on things before you can appreciate how powerful it is. You don't need a bowie that's specifically designed for the back cut to try it out -- take whatever knife you have handy and hold it edge up.

When you use a bowie that's designed for it, a back cut is as much a thrust as a chop, and all that power is concentrated in the point. It's a fast move as well as a powerful one.... It's such a powerful move that you don't need a heavy blade to have a devastating effect. You get power from speed rather than from weight. I could type all night and you wouldn't get it, but try it out and you'll get the idea very quickly. The design of the human arm makes it stronger in one direction than in the other.

You have to compare the back cut to the snap cut, of course, not to the kind of overarm swings you'd make chopping wood. You can't wind up like a baseball pitcher when you're in a fight.
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Aha! You guys were talking about holding the knife edge up! Yes, it's all so much clearer now. And, I suppose you were talking about throwing your knife and arm out at the opponent like a snake uncoiling to strike. Right? Rather than using any swinging motion. If that's what you meant, then yes, it is a rather powerful blow which I've used many times on animals. My Bowie is designed for this, and in my experience, it produces a nasty ripping wound kinda like a stab and slash combined. It is usually not enough to stop an animal, and the swedge has a much harder time with skin than the primary edge does, but might change the mind of an attacker? Then again, there are also many situations during a fight where I would definitely NOT want my knife held edge up, based on several pertinent experiences I've had cutting other things.

Originally posted by brownie
the possum: It's not that the Belle is the best at everything, it's the best I've seen [ for many reasons ] as a pure fighter. It's not he best chopper [specialized use ], it isn't the best stabber [ specialized use ], it is the best compromise [ Bowie types ]one can use in a fight...

Slashing techniques needed to be effective could include weight, edge geometry, length of edge, the power of the stroke, etc. Some deigns rely on weight, others geometry of the edge. The Belle's deign relies on it's being where it needs to be before the others blade can harm you or being able to see a small window open and get there as well before the window closes. It does these things very well through speed which is built into the knife.

It gives up some chopping abilty over heavier blades in a pure sense but it gives up nothing defensively. If I want to chop with it, it will cleave an arm fairly quickly. It won't do this through weight, but instead through speed at the moment of impact. Knife fights are dynamic, fluid, constantly changing by their very nature. Anything that is better at keeping up with these characteristics will be better at defending you.
Click to expand...


Well, this post clears up many of the questions I had. It makes sense the way you've worded it. I still have a few specific questions, but... oh well.
 
I'm not sure if the message is getting across or not, Possum. A back cut is normally done with the sharpened clip of a bowie -- I only suggested holding a knife edge up to try it out if you don't have a knife with a sharpened clip handy. The idea is to turn your wrist over and strike diagonally downward with the sharpened clip. Maybe that was what you meant by an uncoiling snake -- just making sure. The motion is somewhat like a snake uncoiling as it strikes, if you imagine the snake turning its head upside down as it's thrown forward, and striking downward with the teeth of its lower jaw which is now on top.
 
I'm glad to see the great comments this thread sparked. As has been mentioned by others, I had assumed that most people buying pure fighters, were more collectors than users. But I also figured there had to be a few folks who actually carried a knife that was designed as a weapon first.
 
Your two main parts of the Bowie used in fighting are the point and sharpened false edge. The point will penetrate better than a dagger (it's a matter of geometry and physics) and a hit with the false edge will have the point leading all the way (piercing, penetrating, pulling into the target), with the sharpened part ripping afterward. A properly delivered backcut also generates a lot of torgue and is a truly devastating hit. If you are having trouble understanding exactly what's involved, the best visual representation of the backcut can be found on Paladin's "Legacy of Steel" tapes, and the Bowie portion alone is worth the price of the set. Having been through Comtech's Bowie Program, I was surprised at the amount of information released. On a recent trip out of the country, Bill Bagwell had a chance to demonstrate the backcut to a couple of FMA practitioners and gleefully reported full validation of the techniques Keating taught us, even after a little treachery. And yes, people do carry Bowies - a lot more than you think, 'cause it's a lot easier
than you think. The belt stud type sheath, like the one Bill provides with his customs, is the key. I had dinner at an upscale place in Atlanta Saturday after Blade, with some very well known witnesses, and felt no need to remove my Hell's Belle, even though I was dressed in shorts and T-shirt (5'9", 170lbs).
 
Does the Ontario Bagwell Gambler come with a sharpened clip?

Don't believe so...bought a Ontario "Hells Belle" and it was not, though it would be easy to do so.
 
All the Ontario Bagwells should have a sharpened false edge. Some of the earlier first productions weren't as sharp as they should've been, but that was corrected.
 
Mike,
Good explanation on the fighting points of the Bowies.

Looks like I may be able to accompany you in October.

Brownie
 
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