What ever happened to chisel ground blades?

[DocJD]

https://www.bladeforums.com/search/28072667/?q=chisel&o=date&c[title_only]=1&c[node]=715

Chisels ain't exactly " tactical magic" , but they have their uses . Most serrated blades , mower , saws , chippers , chainsaws etc are all chisel ground . All tools with a scissors type cutting . ETC ...

They do cut asymmetrically , so not something everybody wants on their EDC . I've got some "right hand" chisel I like fine . Most are left handed for some reason ?

I've seen lots of consumer reviews with bitter complaints that they bought a knife based on a photo showing ONLY the ground side and were shocked to get a blade that was completely flat on the reverse . They were often upset that the knife was unfinished or defective !

 

[marchone]

Are Emerson A100s chisel ground?

 

[Dadpool]

Are Emerson A100s chisel ground?

Edited to clarify: If you mean one side is flat, no. The A-100 has a chisel edge but a V-grind.

Most production Emersons have a V-grind with a chisel edge. A few have a full chisel grind (one flat side with a chisel edge), like the CQC-7B.

 

[WillB]

Namely the effect it has on the minimum angle of approach. For a given edge angle, you're able to initiate a cut at any angle (up to 90°, after which you're using the other face of the blade) greater than the edge angle. Below that angle and you're riding the shoulder on the target instead of cutting it. So if you have two knives, each with a 30° total edge angle, a symmetrically ground blade can approach the target material at any angle greater than 15° in either direction. The chisel-ground blade will be able to cut at any angle greater than 0° (parallel with the face of the target material) on one side, but any angle greater than 30° on the other (quite steep!) Furthermore, there'll be no relief angle on that side so deflection forces of the cut material are usually pretty high, and in deep cuts the blade will want to deviate with the flat face to the interior of the curve. Chisel grinds are great for paring/flush cuts, but become much more particular about how they approach materials.

What about the claim the blade is more durable? There's more metal at the cutting edge no?

 

[WillB]

Edited to clarify: If you mean one side is flat, no. The A-100 has a chisel edge but a V-grind.

Most production Emersons have a V-grind with a chisel edge. A few have a full chisel grind (one flat side with a chisel edge), like the CQC-7B.

And their humble about it too:

"The CQC-7 is by far the most sought after folding knife of all time. It is the razor sharp, chisel ground knife that has become the standard by which all hard-use folding knives are now judged. The CQC-7 is the knife that revolutionized the entire cutlery industry."

 

[SpySmasher]

What about the claim the blade is more durable? There's more metal at the cutting edge no?

Not, inherently, no. It depends on the angle of the grind. An edge ground to X degrees inclusive is an edge ground to X degrees inclusive.

 

[FortyTwoBlades]

What about the claim the blade is more durable? There's more metal at the cutting edge no?

As SpySmasher noted, it's totally not. Total edge angle and steel volume is the same. Conceptually, think of a chisel grind as being the same as a symmetrically-ground blade that's had the wedge shape of the edge rotated until one bevel is parallel with the blade stock. You can see this illustrated nicely in the above images. Total edge angle remains the same. In fact, if anything, chisel ground blades can be a little weaker than symmetrical grinds because of the uneven deflection forces during cutting imparting side loads on the edge.

 

[jaseman]

As a southpaw, chisel grinds are almost useless to me. They're just 'wrong-handed'.

Had this CRKT Stiff KISS that made a great EDC blade, but as a lefty, I just couldn't cut with it. Shame, as I really liked the knife.

 

[Makael]

Chisel Grind
With only one side to grind and no need for symmetry, this grind is considered an easier grind to achieve. For the same reasons, it is considered easier to maintain the edge. The angle can be sharpened to a thin, incredibly edge.

Like a chisel, this grind involves having only one side tapered or beveled with either a secondary edge bevel or no secondary edge bevel. The other side remains straight from spine to edge. A full chisel grind runs completely from spine to edge. Whether it is a full chisel or not, this design makes for easier sharpening and cleaning of the knife. The chisel grind is either right or left handed making it less versatile for some. Accuracy of the cut requires skill and takes practice to achieve it. Since there is a natural curve to any cut made with a chisel grind, it will tend to lean into the bevel side and create a slanted cut.

 

[Smaug]

They're horrible at slicing.

I think manufactures tried to sell it as The Next Big Thing, because they're cheaper/easier to do, but we realized you can't cut straight with them and therefore stopped buying them.

 

[Lapedog]

Yup. Lots of claims about them somehow being stronger than double bevel grinds and tactical knives making wounds that can't close and stuff like that. Real head-scratcher stuff.

My chisel ground knives actually walk my dog for me and even rub my back when I’m sore.

I do wish chisel ground knives were more popular. I do actually find them easier to sharpen. They have advantages and disadvantages obviously....but I do love them.

 

[Makael]

I think the manufacturers just offered the chisel grind as an option. I don't recall a big push for the grind. It's cool to have choices.

 

[Makael]

Some Bucks came with the Ti coating and single sided grind. With the coating having a hardness greater than the steel. Have 1 Buck 110 with that option. It was payment from Joe Houser for a sheath going to CJ Buck. A fun project.


One of the first large sheaths I've built. Knife was called Sasquatch Bowie. With a Sasquatch inlay in the handle.

 

[SALTY]

Were there wonder claims made about them? I wasn't around for that. To me they seem just like any other grind in that they come with advantages and disadvantages for any specific task.

I'll say that as a right-handed person, I prefer them ground like the one CM pictured above.

If you are going to get a chisel ground blade, it's beneficial to have the grind on the side which is your dominant use hand. Think of cutting pepperoni and/or cheese - if you are right handed and using a grind as depicted here by CM, the spoils of your slicings will be deflected off to the right away from your stock that is about to be cut rather than into it.

I've seen some absolutely insane chisel grinds on kitchen knives - but, for an EDC knife, it's of dubious utility unless you typically cut only in one direction.

It's very much a niche preference, and, as such, isn't particularly common. The market just isn't there for it to be a common grind.

Maybe it may, perhaps might have some immeasurable benefit if you are a Secret Squirrel High-Speed/Low Drag Black Bag Ops Operator who needs a knife to do bad things to bad people but, for the rest of us, I have found a traditional symmetrical grind to be more useful for the stuff that I typically do with a knife. That begin said, i am an Emerson fan and do care one most every day.

They're horrible at slicing.

I think manufactures tried to sell it as The Next Big Thing, because they're cheaper/easier to do, but we realized you can't cut straight with them and therefore stopped buying them.

Yahtzee!

And, to add insult to injury, almost all knife pics in catalogs and on the web show the left side of the knife - the "money shot" as it's sometimes called. Accordingly, the grind is on that side to be "shown" in the show shot. This may be great for selling knives, but not so wonderful for those few folks who may be right handed, actually use their right hand to actually slice stuff that needs to be deflected away from the stuff that's about to be cut, e.g. pepperoni, cheese, apples and the like.

 

[marchone]

Thanks everyone. That killed my desire for an Emerson A100.

 

[JParanee]

The maker who made chisel grinds popular was Phil Hartsfield. There is nothing wrong with a chisel grind, if that is what you prefer. I carried a folding knife with a chisel grind on multiple deployments and they worked fine for the tasks I needed.

This is absolutely correct and the reason Hartsfield’s chisel grinds has an almost mythical reputation for cutting was his heat treat and edge geometry

Emerson has been quoted on his inspiration many times

 

[marthinus]

Here is my only chisel ground blade.

Reground with a 15 degree edge put on by the Sharpmaker.

Gets the job done so I am happy.

I am going to build a chisel ground blade in future with the grind on the right hand side of the Blade but that is for job specific application of cutting paper etc where I want to be able to put the blade flat against the ruler to line up the cut more accurately. My father has similar blades used in the printing industry and just something I want to try.

 

[Daniel Dorn]

@ SALTY:

These are exactly my thoughts. I want a chisel ground kitchen knife but with the "proper" configuration for the express purpose of cutting hard cheese and sausage for my crackers. Other than that I have no real need.

 

[WillB]

Edited to clarify: If you mean one side is flat, no. The A-100 has a chisel edge but a V-grind.

Most production Emersons have a V-grind with a chisel edge. A few have a full chisel grind (one flat side with a chisel edge), like the CQC-7B.

Does a V-grind with a chisel edge defeat the purpose of the chisel edge? Or, is it the best of both worlds? I'm thinking the former, and a V-grind with a chisel edge marketing vs best use of chisel edge design.

 

[FortyTwoBlades]

It gives some disadvantages without any significant performance gains, as far as I can see. It's a rather perplexing configuration to use.