what good is 52100

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MNofUSN

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I just got a call today order today requesting a basic bar stock style knife and he wanted it specifically out of 52100 high carbon steel. when i first started out my mentor gave me a list o steels to avoid useing and this is one of them......

what is the intend purpose for this steel and was my mentor right about avoiding it?? im a little lot because ive never had a request for this steel:confused:
 
I just got a call today order today requesting a basic bar stock style knife and he wanted it specifically out of 52100 high carbon steel. when i first started out my mentor gave me a list o steels to avoid useing and this is one of them......

what is the intend purpose for this steel and was my mentor right about avoiding it?? im a little lot because ive never had a request for this steel
 
52100 is the alloy used in the manufacture of ball bearings. For more information, I'd suggest you familiarize yourself with the Swamp Rat line of knives. Swamp Rat has a forum here:

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/forumdisplay.php/778-Swamp-Rat-Knives

Most Swamp Rat knives are made from SR101 . . . Jerry Busse's trademark for 52100. Some of those knives have attained near mythic status for their toughness, lateral strength, and ability to take and hold an edge. PS: If you don't know who Jerry Busse is, you can find out here:

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/forumdisplay.php/713-Busse-Combat-Knives

Hope that helps. :)
 
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It is a roughly 1% carbon steel with some alloying and makes great blades. There is a lot of hype and hearsay about 52100 with wild heat treating and other things that may put some people off.

I personally like the stuff, it can have very fine grain and has a great combo of hardness and toughness depending on the heat treat. I hammered a 52100 kiridashi through about 10 pennies and it still shaved hair, it is tough with great edge retention.

info ----> http://www.latrobesteel.com/assets/documents/datasheets/52100.pdf
 
There are a lot of custom makers that specialize in this steel too.

The real question is whether you can heat treat it properly. If so, great. Lots and lots of people really love it (including all the Swamprat fanatics).

Lots of custom makers use it.

SR101 is Swamprat's version of the steel (Busse, Swamprat, Scrapyard are all the same family of knives), and they really do involved heat treat/cryo cycles with their steel. They are not running "back yard BBQ" heat treats!
 
Actually, it's pretty good. I have a Bark River in 52100 and it is super easy to keep sharp.
This info is from the steel FAQ by Joe Talmadge

52100
Formerly a ball-bearing steel, and as such previously only used by
forgers, it's available in bar stock now. It is similar to 5160
(though it has around 1% carbon vs. 5160 ~.60%), but holds an edge
better. It is less tough than 5160. It is used often for hunting
knives and other knives where the user is willing to trade off a
little of 5160's toughness for better wear resistance. However, with
the continued improvement of 52100 heat treat, this steel is starting
to show up in larger knives and showing excellent toughness. A
modified 52100 is being used by Jerry Busse in his lower-cost
production line, and such high-performance knife luminaries as Ed
Fowler strongly favor 52100.
 
I have 3 knives in this steel, and it takes a great edge and holds it well. It seems to be tough enough, I have never had any problems with it. The only drawback that I can think of is that is will corrode fairly easily, but so will any carbon steel.
 
I think I;m going to have to try and attempt it...... i was taught using the BBQ system but it stays consistent in temp (100+- fluctuations at most)

Daniel hyper linked the temps needed so I am going to give it a shot
 
I'm not sure why your mentor's told you not to use the steel. It's good stuff, and I don't think it's difficult to work with or heat treat. Could be wrong, though.
Try Googling information related to working with 52100.
 
I had asked a similar question to some of my favorite makers, the old mentor might have been referring to how in the old days it was hard to forge and heat treat. But there are such better ways to that now, I bet it will be great.
 
The heat treat regimen found on Kevin's site is intended to austenize a temperature below the "saturation line" (?) for the steel and keep the grain size way down and the carbide size small too, which are the properties that knife folks, particularly kitchen knife people really like about 52100. His recommended austenizing temp of 1475F is 50-75 degrees lower than what you might see in a recipe for making bearings.
 
Dan57 said:
I'm not sure why your mentor's told you not to use the steel.
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His list composed of what he called Shit steel and hard ass bastards sorry for the profanity bu i kid you not that was the title of the list, im know knowing why this is on the list

he also had PM m-4, like D-2 but better wear resistance, on there and i've used it a couple of times not and its not too bad to work with. Mainly making File knives, insanely fun to make BTW


& he was old school; fire brick & cast iron oven that had a rat cage to toke the fire, got ya buff quick
 
MNofUSN said:
& he was old school; fire brick & cast iron oven that had a rat cage to toke the fire, got ya buff quick
Click to expand...
Sounds like he didn't like anything that he didn't perceive as as "old school" as himself, then. The fact that CPM M4 was on the list should have tipped you off to that.
 
52100 is a great steel. One of my favourites for medium sized knives. I don't know how hard it is to work with, since I'm not a bladesmith, but some "old school" makers swear by it. Ed Fowler, for instance (he talks in depth about it in one of his DVDs).
 
Franciscomv said:
I don't know how hard it is to work with, since I'm not a bladesmith, but some "old school" makers swear by it. Ed Fowler, for instance (he talks in depth about it in one of his DVDs).
Click to expand...
Yeah, the mentor must've been extra old school. Regular old school isn't enough, apparently.
Or just misinformed, either one works.
 
It's harder to heat treat and forge. It more or less needs a spherodize anneal to grind and is not too forgiving under the hammer. Extra carbon to cause headaches if you don't have tight temp controls. Fowler does some pretty... different... things with his thermal cycling to work with this steel. A basic eutectoid steel just needs to hit austenizing temp and then be quenched, no muss no fuss.

I have a few pounds of it, but never got around to beating out a blade, I first tried my hand with forging O1.
 
One of my favorite high carbon steels -- opinion derived from my Marble's Campcrafts (2) and Fieldcraft, all from Mike Stewart's era there. These take an unbelievably fine edge and hold it superbly through hard use. Easy to sharpen, but as others have noticed will rust quickly unless treated appropriately. Takes a nice patina.
 
It is gaining in popularity and I think we can blame bark river for it. honestly I am not a fan I strongly prefer 1080,1084 or 1095 Those that typically like high carbon blades tend to prefer them for ease of sharpening, which 52100 does not posses
 
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