What happened to all the Rats?

[Cliff Stamp]

360Joules pointed out how you can place orders, spend a minute or two on any of the four forums associated with Busse or Swamp Rat and you can immediately find the answers. Otherwise you could have emailed any of the info emails and received a rapid response.

This is true, however there are issues with the webpages. The main Swamp Rat one for a long time had many knives shown but then when you went to order one only the Rat Trap folder was available. If there are other pages with the current knives they they should all be linked, and ideally integrated into the main company webpages. Similar with pages like the SwampShack for info on past models.

However in regards to the knives being high priced, I don't think that statement is well supported simply because there isn't an abundance (or existance?) of knives which are cheaper which can match the performance. Yes there are lots of knives which look similar which are much cheaper but you don't buy from Busse, Swamp Rat or Scrap Yard to get a knife which has a particular look, but to get a particular function.

-Cliff

 

[hardheart]

I know when I want to order something online, I always find it more convenient to search a couple different forums to get information from people who aren't even employed by the manufacturer to direct me to something other than the main page to find a single model from an entire line. It only takes a couple minutes.

Seriously, having to try to find a product in production means there is a definite deficiency. Swamprat.com doesn't even serve a practical purpose for a customer right now.

 

[Greg45]

In addition to the currently-offered knives at the company stores and on the Busse website, there are many Busse and Swamp Rat knives available all the time on the exchange forums. If someone was really interested in getting one they would have no problem. Please bear in mind that many are in brand new condition and offered at amazingly reasonable prices (in relation to their original price).

 

[diversionmary]

Seriously, having to try to find a product in production means there is a definite deficiency. Swamprat.com doesn't even serve a practical purpose for a customer right now.

I had a hard time figuring out the difference between all the swamp rat webpages. I reread that mission statement a few times trying to figure out if there was some special trick I needed to do to get to some sort of store. I spent a good 10 minutes or so trying out different browsers and operating systems, reviewing the page source to make sure I wasn't missing something. Once I finally found the site I could buy from (ratknives) via bladeforums, I thought they were all sold out. It was only the un-branded knives sold out, but I didn't even notice the branded m6 a little lower on the page. 'Place order' doesn't mean the same as view available items/view inventory.

In the end, I'm good at fixing computers and writing code, they're good at making knives.

 

[Cliff Stamp]

It also doesn't help that the main site linked to in this forum isn't the one that you go to buy the knives. All of the sites should be integrated.

-Cliff

 

[on_the_edge]

Well not everything is perfect in life. The sad (in some people's eyes) truth is that the current setup with the websites appears to be sufficiently logical such that SRKW and Busse satisfy both a huge number of customers as well as their required bottom line to stay in business. And while a change might appear to make some things better or easier for some, it will only serve to confuse and frustrate others.

Anybody can obtain SR101 or INFI if they want it, and do so in very short order. I have seen servicemen stationed in Iraq with very limited access to computers do it time and again.

This is NOT a slam on any other knife manufacturer, but if anybody really can't figure out how to get a Busse or a Swamp Rat, then maybe they should be looking at something like Spyderco instead. Of course, even they have lots of discontinued, very hard to find models.

 

[Drocko]

Umm... actually you only received 2 responses to your question, the rest of the comments were in response to other statements made in this thread. (post #6 and #7 are the only one's that have anything to do with your question)



No one called you a name and as a matter of fact there was NO namecalling in this thread. Reread it, any names were once again in reference to other questions (and none were directed at you)



360Joules pointed out how you can place orders, spend a minute or two on any of the four forums associated with Busse or Swamp Rat and you can immediately find the answers. Otherwise you could have emailed any of the info emails and received a rapid response.
I find this statement interesting, because it just indicates you really didn't spend any time trying to buy one. In addition there are many people that have bought numerous different models direct from the company in a short period of time, if you want them they are extremely easy to find.



Sounds like that would be a good project for you to undertake, personally I don't think any of the Busses need your business planning as Jerry will celebrate his 25th year as a Custom Maker in 2007.

Now, if you really want to know why they are so popular I'd be happy to answer, however, I think you are more interested in trying to make negative statements in the form of a question.
If you do really want an answer to your question you may want to start a new thread and ask it in a way people will want to answer. If you do that I'll join in with my opinions.

I guess I've gotten off to a bad start. Certainly didn't expect so much defensive comment. I'm relatively new to this internet stuff. I look at these responses as a flowing conversation. Someone was called a liar? He had responded earlier to my question.

I didn't say, or believe, that anyone called me anything. I was referring to the above statement.

I appreciate the information about ordering the blades. Thank you 360Joules. Both sites I tried earlier weren't functional. I did in fact try several times to email, without success. I'll try again. Elsewhere, I've seen complaints about these sites.

I'm glad you find my statement "interesting" even though you seem to challenge my verasity. I made attempts many times over several months to access both the Busse and Rat sites. Both were a real bollix. Why would I lie about this?? I'm new to this site, and visit very few others, and don't know any history of this site. Has anyone else out there in eatherland had trouble accessing these (Busse or Rat) sites??

I'm also sure Mr. Busse is secure in his business, that's why I find some of your responses curiously defensive. I don't make knives. I don't know anyone in the business. I've just had long experience owning, using, and collecting them. Which brings me back to my original question.

Hope this clears things up. Have a good day.

Drocko

 

[Drocko]

Hi Drocko,

Swamp Rat Knives are currently available at the Swamp Rat Company Store. The Mischief 6 with logo and the Rat Pick are currently in stock. You can currently place an order for the Fusion Battle Mistress at the Busse Combat Home Page or choose to buy an American Kensei at the Busse Company Store. If you need assistance at any of these sites, there are many here that can help you out.

BTW, Welcome to the forums. :thumbup:

Thanks, 360joules.

I feel like I stumbled into a beehive. I enjoy the conversation, but could do without some of the misdirected scolding. One question: Is criticism of a particular brand name or business practice considered blasphemy on BladeForums? And, how do you use the spellcheck previewing these posts?

Thanks again for the welcome. I'll try your suggestions.

Drocko

 

[Eric Isaacson]

Thanks, 360joules.

I feel like I stumbled into a beehive. I enjoy the conversation, but could do without some of the misdirected scolding. One question: Is criticism of a particular brand name or business practice considered blasphemy on BladeForums? And, how do you use the spellcheck previewing these posts?

Thanks again for the welcome. I'll try your suggestions.

Drocko

Question all you like however, it is how you question that is the key. Since you claim to be a newbie I'll give you a few keys on how to "get along" on the internet.
1) don't jump into the middle of someone else's thread and bring up a totally unrelated question. Start a new thread and let it run.
2) since about 90% of conversation relies upon body language and that is very difficult to portray on the internet be careful how you word your posts as not to offend.
3) use the search function, or just read some of the old posts


Now, I agree my post was probably more confrontational than it could have been, but trolls are common on these boards. When someone posts as you did (in the middle of a thread that they didn't start, with a low number of posts, with no location noted, by using a name that is not real, and they ask questions in such a manner as you did) it is common for them to be trolling.

Your question would have received more responses if it would have been something similar to "can you tell me why these knives are so popular" instead of more or less calling everyone that likes them an idiot because there are obviously better knives out there, that are cheaper and easier to get. (that is what how I read your question, because of the way it is phrased)

If you are really interested in Swamp Rat Knives, you may want to check out some of the reviews, they can be found here www.swampshack.com http://www.physics.mun.ca/~sstamp/knives/index.html or view some of the testing pics here http://www.swampratknifeworks.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=10;t=002109#000000

They are popular because they are extremely high performance knives, and at a very reasonable price. They also hold their value (or increase in value) even when they have been used, this is uncommon for a knife. They are a collectible that can be used and enjoyed.

I do apologize if I was a bit too confrontational in my earlier post, and I hope you stick around and join in our discussions. I also hope you read some of the reviews so you can understand why people enjoy owning a Swamp Rat knife.

 

[Willieboy]

While I don't have a dog in this race, I agree with those who question Busse's business model. Anyone who does not know his own production schedule is either a terrible businessman or is playing games with his customers. I suspect it's the latter. I guess I just don't get it but that's okay.

Eric, a while back, I pointed out that I thought Busse kept supplies low so that he could keep prices high. This is what I believe. If there is time to develop multiple websites that do God knows what and form THREE companies that offer next to no product, you would think one could find the time to actually make some knives. I also believe that if enough buyers got sick and tired of Busse's games, and purchased product from other makers, as I have done, he'd find the time to make some knives.

I have said before that I believe Jerry Busse probably makes a fine knife from good materials, but life is too short to screw around with his strange business practices.

 

[Gravelface]

Do you have the lifespan of a fly? Life is too short to own a crappy knife!

 

[Gravelface]

With no other company, much less 3 companies, do you get to talk to and interact with the folks directly responsible for the knives...they attend shows and offer help with any problems you may have. I don't see that with any other companies! Busse, Swamp Rat, and now Scrap Yard knives are readily available....Just because they don't have what you want ...when you want it, means you need to knock on his business practices.

 

[Willieboy]

Gravelface, my man! I sure hope my lifespan is longer than that of a fly. I agree, life is to short to own a crappy knife.

 

[Gravelface]

I hope your life span is also!!! I agree there are some good knives out there...the ontario Rat series..I had a Rat7 D2 I got rid of it once I got my first Camp Tramp...that Res-C is just o so much more comfortable.

 

[Willieboy]

Gravelface, Gravelface, Gravelface. I'm not sure I understand your criticism of my post. My post seems to express a growing position. Who can argue with the notion that the Busse websites are a mess. The fact that so many have commented on the inadequacy of these websites, in this very thread, would worry me, if I were Jerry Busse. Who can argue with the fact production is limited. I read a post recently that referred to the Busse line as "vapor wear." There seems to be a growing number of people who are making the same observations about the Busse companies. Sometimes, the perception is more important than the fact.

Look, I don't really care how he runs his business. It's his capital at risk and as I said it's his business. I don't doubt he is a fine maker. I just think he's running a game on you guys. Try not to become so defensive. I have not criticized you or any other Busse owner for waiting for his knives and buying them when they become available. If he ever produces a knife I like and that I can figure out how to buy, I may do so.

For the record, I do own my own business and have for many years. (I was never a very good employee.) I also understand the laws of supply and demand and, to his credit, I believe Jerry Busse does to.

 

[Gravelface]

Waiting isn't the problem...actually, they come out rather frequently...too frequently, extravaganzas and shows keep me pretty busy! I wasn't being defensive, it didn't seem like you were attacking anyone, just stating that the web part of their business isn't set up the way you or others would like. But if you get past the web and focus on the knives...you will not be bothered by the web sites.

 

[Troy H]

Willieboy,

You're certainly welcome to your opinions about how Jerry has been running his business for the last 25 years. I don't have to look very far into your post history to see that Jerry's business model has been a major concern for you for some time now.

Have you tried calling the shop to speak with him?

 

[Eric Isaacson]

I really find this thread interesting, mainly because there is so much talk about Jerry Busse on the Swamp Rat forum. He seldom comes to this forum to read any of the posts, it is almost like people are posting their comments here so that they can say what they want but so that he won't respond. I would suggest that posts in regards to Jerry Busse be posted in a location that he can see them, namely the Busse Forum, there are 2 easily accessible Busse forums, both of which he reads and responds on. If you prefer not to post comments about Jerry on a forum in which he participates then I look at the comments as they are just gossip, speaking about someone behind their back. (Jennifer just had a baby 2 weeks ago so don't expect her reading your comments either)

He may find your comments useful.

However, as I have said in the past, I know the production numbers of some of the models and they are by no means low, so to say that the "he keeps the production numbers low" is just plain wrong. The knives are in very high demand, and it is sometimes hard to find the model you want, this does not mean that the "production numbers are low"

 

[hardheart]

The production numbers of the knives I want (Rat Mastiff and Rat Hunter) are just a wee bit low, more like nonexistant. Producing enough M6s to meet the demand for M6s is fine, but there's a market a hell of a lot bigger than that, and it's waiting. Why it's waiting, I can't figure. What I really don't get is why 2 companies are producing 2 knives, and they're only variants of the same design.

 

[rabu9]

I can't really comment on Busse knives as I don't own any yet (plus this isn't the Busse forum) but I can comment on the SRKW ones. They are exceptional knives and I don't regret buying any of the five I own. However only one of them was bought from the Company Store with the rest being from the secondary market. In my opinion the secondary market for most of the past line knives is a sellers market (at least for the last year - the time that I have been trying to buy them) because they are no longer available. This explains the high secondary prices, simple supply and demand I think. The problem is that the discontinued ones have not been replaced by the new line yet. Is this to hype up the new line prior to release? I don't claim to know and don't care - like the man said 'Don't believe the hype!' I prefer to believe the reality of their performance - they are good knives and I will buy them no matter the hype or lack of hype.

Now does the high demand and limited supply benefit the company? The money from the high secondary prices doesn't go to the company and may be counter productive if customers spend their money on buying expensive secondary market ones to avoid the wait. I don't claim to know anything about Busse / SRKW business model and don't really care - that's their business not mine. Quality items usually have a waiting list - think Rolls Royce etc and I always have the choice to wait, buy second hand or not buy at all. Now are these knives as difficult and time consuming to produce as other high demand high quality items? I don't know as knife making is not my business or area of expertrise as I only have the time and skill to use them not make them. Maybe others more knowledgeable can comment as this point has come up in this thread.

Where I do think the two (or three) companies could be better are in their websites and delivery estimates, especially the SRKW website as some people have commented on in this thread. Until recently they had a list of knives that when viewers went to order were not available. Now there are no knives listed there but there is no link to the Company Store page either which seems strange. Two knives are available on the Company Store page but you have to click on Order to see them when having a knives available page seperate from the ordering page would be better and more consistant with most other online selling sites. Now I have been around long enough to figure all this out but new customers might not get this right away and potential customers could be lost. I know their business is knives not webpage design but surely this would not be too difficult to fix and makes good business sense, at least it does to me from my experience in online shopping.

In terms of delivery / availablity the two weeks is a well known joke around here and the other place but why is this so? Again I don't know enough about the business model to answer this and am patient enough to wait. But other customers may not be. They then have a legitimate complaint if they believe in the two week wait (naive expectation in the eyes of long term forumites ) but fairly justified in the eyes of the new customers I think if that is what they are told.

For the new line I like the fact that everything is in Micarta (even if unavailable yet) but I much prefer the old line style of handles a la RW, RM, RD, SAR etc. So I guess the secondary sellers can rely on my custom for the foreseeable future and business models are irrelevant for this issue. Unless of course I start getting into Busses as I like the look of the Fusion handles. Maybe this was a cunning Busse ploy to get me to shift to the other side!