What is a survival knife?

[runningboar]

I have been an avid outdoorsman all my life and was raised in a very rural backwoods environment, southern appalachia, where knives were used everyday. I have hunted and fished, hiked and camped literally all my life. I thought I knew what a good knife was and what a survival knife is until I started reading this forum now I am starting think that I am much more ignorant than I thought.

When I was a boy I used to go camping with my grandfather, he called it laying out, we never had a tent he built a lean to with wood he chopped with an axe that he had reprofiled the edge on a grinding wheel, I still have it, and sheet plastic. We used this set up year round even deer camp with snow on the ground, papaw built a roaring fire in the front and I never remember freezing although he did get up in the night to stoke the fire. In his favorite camping place he had a coleman stove and a tarp stashed there so that we didn't have to carry everthing in each time. I learned most of what I know about the out of doors from both of my grandfathers who were true mountain men. The knives they used were mostly pocket knives or 4" or less belt knives which is what I learned to use, I never saw either use a bigger knife except for butchering and then they used a butcher knife.

So enough about my background, we have posts regularly about 5 to 7" knives and even bigger as a "survival" knife, what do yall think is the perfect survival knife and what do you use your knives for. Chris

 

[Fonly]

I think the perfect one would be somthing around 8-9 inchs. It would need to big enough, and thick enough for splitting and chopping. Anything from becker, ranger, swamprat and busse would be "upper" scale choices.
But many use ka-bar and ontario knives which start from $50 and up, But they all work well.

But my main knife is a Grohmann #4, and the axe does the rest

 

[runningboar]

I think the perfect one would be somthing around 8-9 inchs. It would need to big enough, and thick enough for splitting and chopping. Anything from becker, ranger, swamprat and busse would be "upper" scale choices.
But many use ka-bar and ontario knives which start from $50 and up, But they all work well.

But my main knife is a Grohmann #4, and the axe does the rest

I am tracking on the chopping and splitting, do you clean fish and small game with a knife with a 8 to 9" blade, how about wittling the triggers for a figure 4or a rolling snare? Carving a spoon or a bowl and hundreds of small tasks seem to me to be almost impossible with these very large thick knives.

 

[roughedges]

To me, and I'm not saying I'm definetely right, a survival knife is all about compromise in that we are looking for one knife that can do the most things well in a survival situation.

Ideally, I want several knives to help me through such a situation. I'm seldom without at least a pair. But, if I have to choose only one edged instrument it is a large blade that I am most comfortable with, something in the 8-9" blade length as fonly said. With care and fine motor control, a large blade can do much (though not all) of what a small blade can do as well as adequately perform the duties of an axe/hatchet.

So, for me personally, a large blade is the best compromise.

runningboar: I have emailed you on a related topic. Also, I have notched out a trigger for a deadfall with a large blade. Admittedly, its nowhere near as easy as doing it with a smaller one. As for carving a spoon... with a large blade I'd much sooner use the blade itself to scoop up whatever I was intending to eat or otherwise "scoop". Carving a spoon with a large blade would be an exercise in frustration. and patience.

 

[Fonly]

I am tracking on the chopping and splitting, do you clean fish and small game with a knife with a 8 to 9" blade, how about wittling the triggers for a figure 4or a rolling snare? Carving a spoon or a bowl and hundreds of small tasks seem to me to be almost impossible with these very large thick knives.

Thats why you'd need a smaller knife with it, I've heard many say and I'm sure you have A small knife cannot do a big knifes job, but a big one can " sorta' "
Do a small ones, but its better just to have a smaller knife on you.

 

[Fieldtestornothing]

To me, I think of survival maybe a little differently than others. To me, a knife is a item which must be capable of doing the necessary work to keep me alive until I can get rescued or get help. Ideally, in a wilderness living situation, a variety of tools would hopefully be present. So for me in a survival situation the priorities would be:

Shelter making: The knife must be capable of cutting sappling's fairly easily and safely. Maybe even something larger, up to 4-5" limbs. It would need to be strong enough to be batonned like a chisel into larger tree's to facilitate cutting.

Firemaking: Split wood. Baton. Anything necessary for me to get to dry inner wood in the case of wet surroundings (When are they ever dry in an emergency) Have a fine enough edge to make fuzz sticks

After that I think of other types of senarios that I may find myself in. Like cutting myself out of the skin of a Helicopter (I am a passenger in one commonly), cutting a seatbelt, possibly breaking a window out if trapped in a vehicle, ect...

Fine Cutting tasks: Cleaning game, making traps, ect..

So, a SURVIVAL knife must keep me alive. It must be:
Strong, full tang, long enough to baton, sharp enough to cut most materials easily, retain an edge, small enough to be carried every day, ect..

I have several that would meet that criteria:
My choices are a Satin Jack, Fallkniven F1, Scrapper 6.

I every day carry the F1, so I guess it would be my choice. At work, right now I carry the Scrapper 6 on my gear. (Retired the SJ ) To many memories with that old girl.

Now if we start talking Wilderness living, I wouldn't want to be limited to one. Obviously you would be extremely limited with just one choice.

My humble .02

 

[runningboar]

roughedges,
Thanks for your mail, I just replied.

Now for the next question, what if for some reason all you could have is one knife, and one knife only, what would you choose. I have already said I think mine would be an Old Hickory butcher knife, or knife of that size and profile. It will do some light chopping, it is thin enough to slice and cut, and I can choke up on the blade and do ok with the fine work. Chris

Edit: Right now I am EDCing a becker necker and am very pleased with it's performance as an all around knife, although I would hate to try to chop with it.

 

[Fonly]

I would take my BK7, lighter" but able to slice and light chopping

 

[BigBelly]

Mabe we should think in terms of a finishing hammer and a framing hammer. You don't use a framing hammer to put up the woodwork and you don't use the finishing hammer to frame the house. I like my Buck 102 Woodsman or my Buck 105 Pathfinder for Finishing hammer work and my K-Bar USMC Fighting Utility Knife for framing hammer work. And always have a Case 3 blade Stockman in my pocket as a matter of EDC no matter what I am doing. If I could only have one it would be the Buck 105 Pathfinder.

BB

 

[EmsRescueGuy]

Survival Knife is A subjective term. That varies from person to person. Put simply a Survival knife is a tool adequate to handle the tasks needed to survive in a given situation.

Many people consider a survival knife to be a "Do all" tool that can chop, pry, dig, and cut and can serve as a replacement for axe, saw, shovel and knife. It should be able to make a shelter, cut fire wood, Clean Game, Make traps, etc etc.

I think the term Survival Knife Really came about for the knives used by sailors and Pilots in case of bail outs. These were designed to Provide a relativeley compact tool that could acomplish the various tasks needed to keep a stranded serviceman alive. Of couse The 80s Rambo craze did alot to popularize the name and associate it with hollow handles.

WSK Refers to a wilderness Survival Knife and is often associated with a pattern of blade popularized by Tom Brown. (many threads on this pattern are around if you look)

In my opinion To be a "Survival knife" and not just a knife I think a certain amount of heartyness is required. This has to be the kind of knife that you can say "If i only had this I could do what i need to do". I dont mean it has to be heavy just sturdy. The falkniven F1 is a great example of a suvival Knife that is Stronger and more durable than the standard Moras used by the swedish military without being much bigger or heavier.

 

[Gossman Knives]

Survival knife to me is a generic term like tactical knife. I look at knives in several different catagories. This would be for fixed or folding knives. First, the knife that gets used the most, your EDC. Next would be a hunting knife which is used mainly for gutting, skinning and game processing. Field knife, a knife that serves several purposes. It would be the most universally used in the field or woods. The camp knife. I look at this one as a two part use. A large fixed blade used around camp for chopping and splitting of firewood and shelter building. Kitchen camp knife. This one would be used specifically for cooking and food prep. So to answer the question, whatever knife you have on you when the SHTF.
Scott

 

[sicily02]

Amen scott, in my shoulder kit I carry a mid sized, knife for the camp chores and a rat-3 for food prep I have used the Doug Ritter mk3 in the kitchen with good succes but it really come down to what you have with you at the time a situation happens. Think back to the Kim James family in oregon. Having a small pack is great but having a full pack with I think better. I think that most
people that read these threads are already in a better frame of mind and have a kit that would get them by if they drove down a wrong road and got stuck.
any other thoughts,
Bryan

 

[EmsRescueGuy]

You know Scott as a long time reader of Tactical knives magazine I used to laugh at the ongoing debate from the readers and wrighters about what defined a Camp knife some thought kitchen, some thought Heavy chopping.

For some reason no one was willing to admit that both could be right. Isnt it amazing what people will debate over.

 

[GibsonFan]

one thing I have to add, I have no love for mid-length knives. No power and no finesse either. If I'm going to make a choice I will go with either a big (9"+) or small (4"-). I just can't get comfortable with 5-8" blades, they trade off too much both ways. Even my Master Hunter, which I like a whole lot, is a bit bigger than it really needs to be at 4-5/8". 3-1/2" or 4" would be fine for me.

If it's a "Keep myself out of the rain till I find my way out" deal, I want the big'un. Not going to be sitting around carving bowls One thing about a big knife that I seldom see mentioned, it's not taboo to hold the spine of the knife! You may be surprised how well you can control it that way when working on small stuff. No, I wouldn't like to clean a trout that way, but you could. A bit messy maybe, but hey, survival ain't always pretty.

For a relaxed trip I use the small knife much more often, BUT I sure appreciate my bowie or tomahawk when it's time to cut firewood, drive tent stakes, crack walnuts...

Either way I like carbon steel for the usual reasons. Toughness and sharpenability are very important, although I don't ask my knives to be tree-stand steps for my 220# self! I just feel more confident in my 3/16" full-taper Master Hunter than I do in my 1/16" mora. Of course you could survive with "just" a Mora, I would just be less likely to dig or otherwise put sideways stress on it, naturally. I like a flat or convex grind for the same strength reasons.

Like many of you, my real answer is BOTH big and small

Some thoughts about sheaths... Leather is almost universally reviled as a survival knife sheath. But it seems to me most campers, hunters or folks in a survival situation aren't going to be in the woods for more than a few days at a time. Their knives spend the vast majority of their time tucked away, sharp, clean and dry
(hopefully). When I got my TrailMaster last summer I took it camping and was lucky enough to get to chop firewood in the rain the very first night. I put in it's leather sheath overnight, filthy and wet, on purpose. ("Now is the time to find out"). The blade was spotted, naturally. The edge was affected approximately zero percent. It cleaned right up, with a bit of steel wool, after I got back home. The sheath dried out just fine, didn't come apart, and actually fit a little better afterwards. I probably should have given it some mink oil or something after it dried out, but many camping trips later it's still in fine shape.

Now of course I wouldn't want a leather sheath if I worked on the sea or lived in the jungle full-time. I guess my point is, I look at leather and carbon steel much the same way; reports of them falling apart and needing excessive maintenance are greatly exaggerated. For my purposes, I'll take a nice solid leather sheath over a shoddy Cordura one ANY day. That's not to say some very good nylon sheaths aren't out there! Both OEM and after-market.

One perk Cordura sheaths have, they're more likely to have a pouch on the front. I feel a sharpener and firestarter of your choice are almost mandatory on the sheath if you're going to call it a survival knife (assuming if you ONLY have the knife and its sheath, you can survive). Naturally, many people including myself have devised ways to carry a whole PSK on their sheath. This can get as complicated and bulky as you let it.

WHY do 99% of big knives' sheaths have a long belt loop above the guard?!? I can't stand the way they swing around, get caught in brush, and try to pull my dang pants off. Not to mention trying to sit comfortably. And WHY do they put the keeper strap nearer the pommel? Great, it's harder to open and can slide out a couple inches. ???? All my bigger sheaths have the belt loop cut off and the keeper repositioned to wrap around right by the guard. 100% more comfortable to carry and get to. I carry them IWB, it would be nice to have a belt loop mounted below the guard. Or perhaps centered on the guard.



btw runningboar I like my Necker too, NO I didn't grind a fish barb into it, lol.

 

[SkunkWerX]

I have been an avid outdoorsman all my life and was raised in a very rural backwoods environment, southern appalachia, where knives were used everyday. I have hunted and fished, hiked and camped literally all my life. I thought I knew what a good knife knife was and what a survival knife is until I started reading this forum now I am starting think that I am much more ignorant than I thought.

When I was a boy I used to go camping with my grandfather, he called it laying out, we never had a tent he built a lean to with wood he chopped with an axe that he had reprofiled the edge on a grinding wheel, I still have it, and sheet plastic. We used this set up year round even deer camp with snow on the ground, papaw built a roaring fire in the front and I never remember freezing although he did get up in the night to stoke the fire. In his favorite camping place he had a coleman stove and a tarp stashed there so that we didn't have to carry everthing in each time. I learned most of what I know about the out of doors from both of my grandfathers who were true mountain men. The knives they used were mostly pocket knives or 4" or less belt knives which is what I learned to use, I never saw either use a bigger knife except for butchering and then they used a butcher knife.

So enough about my background, we have posts regularly about 5 to 7" knives and even bigger as a "survival" knife, what do yall think is the perfect survival knife and what do you use your knives for. Chris

Chris,
"built a lean to with wood he chopped with an axe"....and therein lies the rub.

Some people carry a hatchet or hand axe. If so, they wouldn't have a use for 9" blade...or not much of one, at least.
But, consider the flip side, for those who don't carry a hatchet or hand axe, a larger blade is another way of handling those chores.

You say you carry a machete/tramontina to care for your chopping needs nowadays, so you don't need a 9" knife by your side. But, you have a far larger one in that Machete. Makes a Roman short sword look, well, short!

I am not picking on you, except as an example of a person who knows what they use, is confident in their tools, and knows what they like and what they need.

I love my Ontario machete, 20+ years, me and my machete are still going strong. But, I use it for yard work, chopping small limbs off of trees I've felled, etc. I don't carry it hiking or backpacking. Too unwieldy for me.

Hatchets? I've got them, all shapes and sizes, some are older than I.
Again, never packed them.

So where does that leave me? Needing something that can chop when I am backpacking or hiking. Right there. I find a larger knife to be a compromise over carrying a machete or hatchet.

Can I filet a small fish with it? nope. But can I cut off the head, and clean out the guts? sure thing. However, with my SS Wenger Mountaineer in my pocket, why would I even blink?

Back in the old days, steel manufacturing was different. So were wallets.
My grandfather had his pocketknife and a hatchet.
Butcher knives were the "Big knives" of those by gone days.

A lot has changed. Our grandfathers had choices, so long as it was carried at the Ag/Hardware Store. People used what was available to them.

I don't think the "one knife" scenario will ever be answered such that we satisfy everyone. If you exclude hatchets, machetes, saws, and other chopping/sawing devices, it would boil down to trading off between smaller/sharper/for detail work and larger/heavier/for chopping and cutting.


I have read these "one knife" scenarios until my brain hurts.
The funny thing is that someone will invariably answer, "All I need is my Mora, cuz I have a GranforsBruks in my pack for the heavy stuff."
And that is fine, but, it misses the spirit of the premise.

If you had NO SAW, NO HATCHET, NO AXE, NO MACHETE, Not even a SAW on your SAK, nothing else in the way of cutting, chopping, etc.
What would be your choice to care for all wilderness chores?

I would elect something about 7" at least 3/16" thick, along the lines of my RAT-7. (Substitute Hell Razor or BK7, considering size.)
Certainly it's a size trade-off. I can choke up and do some finer work, clean fish, small game, but I can also wail on a tree branch to make sturdy shelter.

What would everyone else choose, given NO SAWS, NO AXES, NO MACHETES.
One sharp object? Just one.

that's it.

 

[runningboar]

btw runningboar I like my Necker too, NO I didn't grind a fish barb into it, lol.

You do and I will hunt you down myself, have you seen the prices these things are going for, if it keeps going I might put mine on the BAY. Chris

 

[Cobalt]

this is easy, survival knife is the one you have on you or with you nearly 99% of the time, as a survival situation is sheit hits the fan knife for a situation that unexpectedly hit you. Like driving cross country and getting lost in a blizzard with a broken down car in the middle of no where. What did you have with you. If that knife is your folding pocket knife then that is your survival knife. I carry a leatherman supertool or charge Ti and an old generation Busse Battlemistress everywhere I go (99%). That is my survival tool.

I think that typical knife we talk about in survival is actually a prepared trek packed knife called a camp knife. This is the knife you take when yo uare prepared for your outdoor trek. A Camp knife is a knife that can do most camp chores, chopping animal parts or trees and limbs, cutting meats, vegetables, clearing a trail, possibly digging with it. IT can be almost anything. As for it's size it can vary in size from 4 inch blade length to 10 inch, depending on what your terrain is. In a desert environment smaller would do, in the thicker woods 5.5 inch and larger would be my choice and has been.

The ORIGINAL FRONTIER CAMP KNIFE was a massive knife of 14 inches in length with a 9 - 10 inch blade, 1/4 inch thick of carbon steel. It was used for everything including chopping through bone. It had to be solid and tough because the frontiersman did not have a store near him. These guys lived off the land for extended periods and did not have access to a smith to make them a new knife when the old one broke, so they needed a tough solid blade.

here is a site that has an exact copy of the original hudson bay frontier knife

http://www.efrontierblades.com/MontanaAmericanaGallery.htm

they looked like this:

 

[runningboar]

What would everyone else choose, given NO SAWS, NO AXES, NO MACHETES.
One sharp object? Just one.

that's it.

Probably this, 10 dollars in any hardware store.

You should try a 12" or 14" machete on the side of your pack, works better than a hatchet IMO, and carrys pretty darn good. Chris

 

[SkunkWerX]

You do and I will hunt you down myself, have you seen the prices these things are going for, if it keeps going I might put mine on the BAY. Chris

Chris! Don't sell your necker!

They are fine little knives....they are small knives, but with a big knife feel. oh well, it sounded good.

I hope they straighten out their Becker woes and get back to making knives.
It was a good affordable line of knives.

It's making the Ontario RAT series more expensive too.

 

[runningboar]

Skunk,
I am edcing my necker right this instant and truly love it, when I lived in AZ I had a good friend that owned a knife shop and I got stuff at cost so I have very little in it. Right now I see them going for 65 dollars plus shipping, I consider myself to be a practical man and and being able to triple my money is pretty hard to resist.