-
The BladeForums.com 2024 Traditional Knife is available! Price is $250 ea (shipped within CONUS).
Order here: https://www.bladeforums.com/help/2024-traditional/
What is Cho Creep?
- Thread starter Azsoldier
- Start date
- Joined
- Aug 17, 2003
- Messages
- 3,409
A number of people complain that the cho is moving further and further away from the bolster. in the above, the lower 19th C. nepali armoury model has the cho ~ 1/2" from the bolster, the ww1 model above it is about 3/4" and the m43 is about 3/4", the HI Kobra above that has grown to about 1", the cho on the kopis at the top is a whopping 17" in front on the 16" blade
Cho creep is purely a cosmetic value judgement. While I don't want my cho riding in the center of the blade, at no time have I ever considered the cho placement to restrict the function of the blade in any way.
It has actually been argued that cho placement affects balance. I suppose it does, the way a fly landing on the tip of the blade would.
Mostly, Cho Creep is a neurotic function of compulsive individuals seeking perfection in their morning breakfast cereals.
All that said, I don't want the cho to ride two inches above bolster. No more than an inch or less, give or take a fly's wing, is fine with me.
When the Kamis were asked once to put the cho closer to the bolster, they were afraid our large western hands would slip over it into the edge of the blade.
There is something to that; you have a little more grip allowance if the cho is not right up against the bolster.
Mostly, the dreaded cho creep is a non issue with me.
You really want an issue; start looking at those forumites who polsih the inside of their chos vs those who leave them...dirty.
munk
It has actually been argued that cho placement affects balance. I suppose it does, the way a fly landing on the tip of the blade would.
Mostly, Cho Creep is a neurotic function of compulsive individuals seeking perfection in their morning breakfast cereals.
All that said, I don't want the cho to ride two inches above bolster. No more than an inch or less, give or take a fly's wing, is fine with me.
When the Kamis were asked once to put the cho closer to the bolster, they were afraid our large western hands would slip over it into the edge of the blade.
There is something to that; you have a little more grip allowance if the cho is not right up against the bolster.
Mostly, the dreaded cho creep is a non issue with me.
You really want an issue; start looking at those forumites who polsih the inside of their chos vs those who leave them...dirty.
munk
- Joined
- Oct 19, 2005
- Messages
- 20,029
The cho estabolishes the size of the ricasso area of the blade. Therefore when it creeps up the edge the ricasso gets longer and longer. Many people find that to be unapealing. Knife guys are kinda nuts about aesthetics of their blades. Munk, admitedly, is not a knife guy. If you're like me you spend time staring and hefting and stabbing/swinging new blades for the first few weeks. I think Jake said he sleeps with his under his pillow.
At one time there was a claim that this affected the balance and handling of the blade. Pure bullshite IMHO. There is VERY little steel removed for the cho, so moving it is not very relevant except aesthetically. Probably the length and shape of the handle is a way bigger factor in handling.
At one time there was a claim that this affected the balance and handling of the blade. Pure bullshite IMHO. There is VERY little steel removed for the cho, so moving it is not very relevant except aesthetically. Probably the length and shape of the handle is a way bigger factor in handling.
I'm not a knife guy, per say, but I like steel.
I like things that work. I like khuks. This forum has taught me a love of knives I did not have before. But as Ddean once said, 'it's the steel."
munk
oh, I've spent very little time slicing or stabbing air. I'll heft a new blade to get the feel of balance. I almost never swing them until I have some work to do.
I don't see myself as a martial artist, or ....whatever happens in the imagination while holding the blade. But a new firearm or knife, does get held for fit and balance. Like guns, the more you pick up a khuk, the more familiar you are with it- builds muscle memory or some BS sports jargon like that.
If someone came into my house and I grabbed the khuk or Rose by my bedside instead of my 10mm, they'd get delimbed I guess, same way as I'd chop a Ponderosa pine. Not very slick.
I like things that work. I like khuks. This forum has taught me a love of knives I did not have before. But as Ddean once said, 'it's the steel."
munk
oh, I've spent very little time slicing or stabbing air. I'll heft a new blade to get the feel of balance. I almost never swing them until I have some work to do.
I don't see myself as a martial artist, or ....whatever happens in the imagination while holding the blade. But a new firearm or knife, does get held for fit and balance. Like guns, the more you pick up a khuk, the more familiar you are with it- builds muscle memory or some BS sports jargon like that.
If someone came into my house and I grabbed the khuk or Rose by my bedside instead of my 10mm, they'd get delimbed I guess, same way as I'd chop a Ponderosa pine. Not very slick.
- Joined
- Jan 13, 2006
- Messages
- 116
I like a long ricasso because it can be used together with a fire steel to make fire. I think it makes the khukuri more useful.
- Joined
- Oct 19, 2005
- Messages
- 20,029
I wasn't criticizing, brother. You know that.
Yep, the larger ricasso is mega useful. For firestarters, and also to choke up on when working smaller things. Butttttt... utilitarian isn't always the prettiest. The majority of my purposefully cho creepless khuks (from another mother) are chopping duds. So I've learned to accept a little cho creep in trade for functionality. Most of my ~15 HI's have very acceptable cho positions, and all chop like a dream.
Yep, the larger ricasso is mega useful. For firestarters, and also to choke up on when working smaller things. Butttttt... utilitarian isn't always the prettiest. The majority of my purposefully cho creepless khuks (from another mother) are chopping duds. So I've learned to accept a little cho creep in trade for functionality. Most of my ~15 HI's have very acceptable cho positions, and all chop like a dream.
- Joined
- May 10, 2004
- Messages
- 621
munk said:
Guilty
DanR
howlin wolf
Banned
- Joined
- Apr 9, 2006
- Messages
- 137
Dirty Creeping Chos on a Plane
all we need is a screenplay
all we need is a screenplay
- Joined
- Oct 12, 2001
- Messages
- 1,028
Here's a pic I put together a while back. Top is Shop 1 AK from mid-90s(?), with traditional bolster. Bottom is current shop AK from 2003ish with habaki bolster. Handles lined up, you can see the difference in the bolster size and "cho creep" marked in yellow.
That is not how I would measure cho creep with a habaki bolster. If you measure from the end of each bolster, the creep is much less, appearing less than a 1/4".
A more informative comparison would be with a recent traditional bolster HI and your early 90's rig. The real usefullnes of your comparison to me is in how much unedged distance there is from the hakabi bolstered khuk, including the bolster, to the edge proper than from the tradtional; and that's a real number.
( on a side note, I once asked Bill if there was any reason I should attempt to aquire shop one khuks over the khuks being made then/now. His answer was an emphatic 'no'. )
munk
A more informative comparison would be with a recent traditional bolster HI and your early 90's rig. The real usefullnes of your comparison to me is in how much unedged distance there is from the hakabi bolstered khuk, including the bolster, to the edge proper than from the tradtional; and that's a real number.
( on a side note, I once asked Bill if there was any reason I should attempt to aquire shop one khuks over the khuks being made then/now. His answer was an emphatic 'no'. )
munk
- Joined
- Oct 19, 2005
- Messages
- 20,029
Sorry Munk, but I agree that the ricasso started when the bolster flattened to the blade. I'd count that as cho creep.
kamagong
Gold Member
- Joined
- Jan 13, 2001
- Messages
- 11,020
I like the Shop 1 knives. They may not be finished as well but have a few features that I prefer--shorter egg-shaped handles, convex edges, less cho creep. The problem is that only a few models were made in Shop 1. There was no YCS, FF, GS, GRS, Chitlangi, M43, Kobra, or several other models that I can't remember. If you want a Shop 1 knife you are pretty much limited to the BAS, WWII, AK, Sirupati or the Gangaola.
If you count that, then that is one heck of a creep. Creepy creep.
I think cho creep is best understood as the distance between the edge of the bolster to the near edge of the cho.
I think the cho's have tightened somewhat, but that may be just the illusion caused by the traditional bolster HI uses once more.
munk
I think cho creep is best understood as the distance between the edge of the bolster to the near edge of the cho.
I think the cho's have tightened somewhat, but that may be just the illusion caused by the traditional bolster HI uses once more.
munk
- Joined
- Apr 14, 2005
- Messages
- 880
(1) I think the're all pretty
(2) Use them for awhile and they get dinged
(3) Fail to use them to keep them pristine, and somewhere there is an old kami spinning in his grave
(4) Keep them pristine and you fail to find the soul of the steel...
(5) Would you put a close friend in jail, locked up and unhappy?
(6) Are you an overprotective parent that smothers with love?
Ergo, IMHO one does not realize the joy and satisfaction until the shine is gone
(2) Use them for awhile and they get dinged
(3) Fail to use them to keep them pristine, and somewhere there is an old kami spinning in his grave
(4) Keep them pristine and you fail to find the soul of the steel...
(5) Would you put a close friend in jail, locked up and unhappy?
(6) Are you an overprotective parent that smothers with love?
Ergo, IMHO one does not realize the joy and satisfaction until the shine is gone
- Joined
- Apr 14, 2005
- Messages
- 880
The above also applies to trucks, deer rifles and women.
- Joined
- May 18, 1999
- Messages
- 15,395
Cho creep is when the cho gets so far ahead of the angle of the bolster whether it be a traditional or a so-called habaki bolster to be asthetically unbalanced with the khukuri and therefore ugly.
A well formed cho should have a point on the blade edge side and be a little higher than the dull lower side next to the handle. The old timers took more pride in their work and especially so when the khukuris were going to nobility and other upper class people.
A well formed cho should have a point on the blade edge side and be a little higher than the dull lower side next to the handle. The old timers took more pride in their work and especially so when the khukuris were going to nobility and other upper class people.
