What is going on with the ABS?

Kohai999

Kohai999

Second Degree Cutter
Joined
Jul 15, 2003
Messages
12,554
Have been an ABS apprentice for a while, and get the Journals. Got the new one today, and as usual, read from cover to cover.

Thoughts:

1. The 2007 MS Knife of the Year by James Walker and 2007 JS Knife of the Year by Rusty Polk are not terribly exciting or "new" knives. The Walker Bowie has stellar ivory of some sortwhat looks to be some gold inlay, and a blued ladder pattern blade. Don't get me wrong, it is a VERY nice knife, but I can think of some Forumites, who at the JS level, make a MUCH more interesting knife, one deserving of the "2007 KOTY" title. The Polk Bowie does not look to have a ferrule, and the lines are a bit dowdy. It all leaves me scratching my head.

2. No real comments on the 2007 Board knife or TOMB knife if that is what floats your boat.:rolleyes:

3. Joe Keeslar is outgoing Chairman, I guess. I think that he did a fine job, but don't know everything either.:foot:

4. Robert "Bob" Calvert is now the newest member of the ABS Board of Directors, primarily because of his expertise in the fields of banking and insurance. OK, that would make sense, but would it not make MORE sense to have someone who makes and sells knives of an amazing quality and imagination, that are virtual unobtainium at reasonable prices, and is a marketing genius to the Board?

5. Buddy Thomason has written an article titled "The Knife that Foretold the Future" that ranks right up there in the top 10 of "knife articles" for me. Keep writing Buddy, you rock, and make me proud to know your face!

6. The 2007 W.F. Moran Award design knife is the Spearpoint Bowie. This may excite you all, but the sound that is in my head is that of crickets chirping loudly.

7. Did you know that there was a "Giraffe Bone" Award at the Arkansas Custom Knife Show? I wonder why there is not a "India Stag" award or a "Mother of Pearl Company" award?

8. There is an article on the Reno 2007 Exposition. B.R. Hughes took the pictures, except for a nice candid by our own Ralph Merlino. B.R. is a man with some impressive background, so I have been told, and wrote some great stuff, but the pics in the Journal make it look like the show was attended by about 12 people, specifically makers. Dangit, that is not a way to promote a show, a very good show, btw, on the verge of being a great show.

9. Coop and Dan Farr have some big ads in the back of the Journal, it is nice to see those that really don't need the work supporting the organization.

I'm afraid if the ABS does not take the momentum, and break out of some of the mold formed by Bill Moran(may he rest in peace), it will go the way of the Knifemaker's Guild, which was REALLY something in the late '80's, early '90's.

What do I suggest? Simple really, stop pushing out JS/MS makers, raise the bar of acceptable, and start teaching the group how to sell MORE knives, and bring in MORE BUYING collectors.

I am writing this with the hope that it will stir up some conversation at Blade. I don't pretend to know everything, don't really care who gets pissed off. The ABS is a great organization, and once some people, including, ahem, Jerry Fisk, helped to raise the standards of "acceptable" through top quality mentorship, the knives stopped being "folk art" that looked like it had been ground on a rock, and started being simply "art".

Best Regards,

STeven Garsson
 
Buddy is a member of this forum, but he goes by the user name HTMD.

I haven't gotten my issue yet so I can't comment on the knives or article contained therein.

Don't know enough about the inner workings of the ABS to give an opinon on how good a job Joe did as Chairman.

I like spearpoint bowies.

I agree that there are too many JS and MS being turned out right now. Raising the passing mark might be a good idea, but I wonder, if they raise the standard for future JS and MS, should those that have already passed be required to meet those same standards?
 
I don't heavily follow the latest in forged blades, because custom slipjoints are my thing:D

However, I would say there is a wide disparity in the quality you can expect from "shoe in" mastersmiths. The designation is becoming meaningless IMHO. I have bought knives from Journeyman smiths that were what I would call Mastersmith quality, and then there have been some...disappointments.
 
Durwood said:
....However, I would say there is a wide disparity in the quality you can expect from "shoe in" mastersmiths. The designation is becoming meaningless IMHO. I have bought knives from Journeyman smiths that were what I would call Mastersmith quality, and then there have been some...disappointments.
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Hey Durwood,

That is a BIG part of what I am talking about.

The ABS is becoming so politicized that there are currently MS smiths that produce work that would not get them JS smith status at this point.

How about some ongoing qualifiers? If you are not up to speed, you get downgraded!;)

Best Regards,

STeven Garsson
 
forgive my ignorance, I know squat about ABS, but does being a MS really even matter anymore? can one not make ultra high quality forged blades and not even be part of the abs much less a ms, or is it a requirement to be considered a serious maker?
 
severedthumbs said:
forgive my ignorance, I know squat about ABS, but does being a MS really even matter anymore? can one not make ultra high quality forged blades and not even be part of the abs much less a ms, or is it a requirement to be considered a serious maker?
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One can certainly be considered a serious maker, and not be ABS. That said, the ABS ranking confers a certain weight, and trust that basic tenents of honor, methodology of production and accountablity will be held.

Best Regards,

STeven Garsson
 
This has the makings of a great thread.
I will have to ponder :confused: on the subject a bit before I post.
 
Good thread, Steve :thumbup: Here are my thoughts on the issue.

From what I've read, Bill Moran started the ABS school with the intention of teaching anyone and everyone interested in making quality, forged, carbon steel knives. His motivation was to spread the love of forged, handmade knives combined with the knowledge and skills necessary to produce such. In light of that, the high number of JS and MS smiths would indicate that he succeeded.

The idea behind the stamp system itself is to codify an expected level of performance for a handforged knife. I wholeheratedly agree with this - a knife should be able to perform certain tasks without the user having any undue fears or expectations. A smith who's demonstrated that he can make knives passing the performance tests is awarded the ABS ranking. Now, this stamp doesn't guarantee that the smith will always produce knives of the approved caliber; what it does say is the smith is capable of such. The stamp doesn't necessarily translate into fit and finish of the knives produced, either. JS and MS knives are supposed to perform to certain standards; the look of the knife, ultimately, is secondary.

I agree with the idea of re-certifying smith stamps every so often for each member of the ABS. I don't know if the ABS has the infrastucture to regulate that, as it would entail more paper work, scheduling, and information processing than one would initially imagine. It would actually be a fun job, in my opinion.
 
it seems that the collecter market weeds out the "not so desirable" makers over time if their work is not up to par.
 
tHAT`S THE MAIN REASON i GOT OUT.iHAD MY DAGGER READY AND THE OTHER 4 READY 2 YEARS AGO AND SAID TO H--- WITH ALL THE CRAP. tHANKS rOBERT
 
I believe collectors should take a more active role in the ABS.....Now we only pay dues, get journals and attend banquets.
 
Steven.......the bar has been raised considerably since the early 90's. That is what scares the hell out of me when I think that I will be eligible to test for JS in '08.....lol.
As for the structure/politics, the ABS was founded and remains a benevolent dictatorship/oligarchy. This worked well as long as there was a benevolent dictator/dictator emeritus with either official or unofficial "final say" on important matters, to wit, Bill Moran. It may be time for a change of some type, but I don't know if there is a mechanism for change. I personally would like to see at least 3-4 options for what you can do as your "Master" knife. Although there have been some bad feelngs and some folks who have "voted with their feet" because that is the only vote that have, the structure and stated mission of the ABS have in some ways allowed it to avoid the implosion that the Guild suffered. Change may not be absolutely necessary for the ABS to survive in the short to medium term, but change can be good. My experience has been that it remains a vibrant and very open group IN SPITE of whatever silly things happen.
 
I'm in no position to comment, nor do I have knowledgable facts on the ABS. I'll learn some here.

That said, I am anxious to hear what Tai Goo has to say.... ;)

Coop

PS: Thanks for the mention, STeven.
 
Your input would be appreciated here!:D

Best Regards,

STeven Garsson
 
Hi STeven,

I sent my lengthy response to Kevin (as he emailed me about the thread).

I'll send it to you as well.

WWG
 
Kohai999 said:
One can certainly be considered a serious maker, and not be ABS. That said, the ABS ranking confers a certain weight, and trust that basic tenents of honor, methodology of production and accountablity will be held.

Best Regards,

STeven Garsson
Click to expand...

Although I am a new knife enthusiast I certainly agree with this statement. I have come to accept and rely upon the judgment of ABS, and focused my efforts on makers who have earned their JS and MS stamps to ensure I was purchasing a quality product. However, on several occasions I have had some disappointing experiences where some ABS makers: have not lived up to the standards of their respective rating, used the stamp as a marketing tactic to increase prices, or have poor customer service (see Hall of Shame, GBU …names need not be mentioned). Thus, I have come to question the credibility of the organization:confused: .

I find it interesting this topic was just posted as I was starting to question if there is any accountablity beyond the JS/MS testing and award procedures.

Bob
 
I am biting my tongue for the moment, because at this point in time the ABS (as an organization) is making steam come out of my ears. Some forumnites will know what I am talking about.

I will count to ten and join in when I can make a more sober contribution.

But let me say that I think that the greatest failure of this organization is it's failure to understand that the ultimate repository for the noble craft they seek to uphold is the membership itself. Failure to promote their members, and failure to educate their membership as to how to promote themselves will ultimately work to undermine their stated goals. Simply put, they take this whole "not for profit" bit much too far, much too often.

Roger
 
silenthunterstudios said:
Is that our Thomason that wrote the article?
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Keith Montgomery said:
Buddy is a member of this forum, but he goes by the user name HTMD.
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Just want to make sure everyone is clear on this. Keith is right. I am Rob Thomason, a mere doofus. No relation to Buddy Thomason, writer, photographer, 1st class knife knut and the guy Kohai999 was referring to. He is also prettier than I am.:D
 
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