what is more usefull

rocketmann

rocketmann

Joined
Dec 24, 2005
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I was wondering which would you find more usefull for general bladesmithing a hydraulic press or a treadle hammer?? I know that a press is great for making damascus, reducing stock and for forge welding but can you forge to shape with one? Can a treadle hammer do the same?? What to do,what to do:confused: ??
 
If you plan to move into making damascus, or if you want to buy any of Don's W-2 (;)), and you have the choice of either now, go for a press. I don't know how much in the way of forging to shape a press can do, but the parts where it'd be most convenient to have a treadle hammer (drawing out tangs for example) you can totally do with a press. I imagine that if you made a set of angled drawing dies you could forge in your bevels with a press as well, and do so much more repeatably and accurately than with a hammer. A press is also a LOT easier on your knees ad back than a treadle hammer.

If you decide you don't want the press though, just send it my way and I'll dispose for it for you :)

-d
 
rocketmann said:
... I know that a press is great for making Damascus, reducing stock and for forge welding but can you forge to shape with one?...
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The press wins hands down imho. You can forge to shape on a press, just make some point dies/bevel dies. Once you get good at it you will find yourself doing very little hand hammering to finish out the blade. I just recently got turned on to the bevel dies by Ron Claiborne, and forged out two good size cable Damascus blades in a very short period of time after welding up a billet of 4 pieces of 1" cable...and I wasn't sore the next day...very nice. :)

-Darren
 
deker said:
where it'd be most convenient to have a treadle hammer (drawing out tangs for example)
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Press still wins. :) Put a flat die in the bottom and a drawing die in the top and then vice versa to forge the tang. It's almost like cheating.

-Darren
 
I have a treadle hammer, power hammer and one of Ron Claibornes hydraulic presses....

The hydraulic press is the most useful of all three items, power hammer second, treadle last........and (the press) would be the last of the three items to leave my shop if I had to downsize.
 
If your'e just doing blades, the press would be most usefull i'm sure. That being said, i'm probably either purchasing or assembling a treadle hammer sometime this next year myself. A Treadle hammer can do all that the press can it just takes longer, and more physical work. However a treadle hammer also allows you to do more general forging, chisiling, repouse, etc.

Myself, i started out my metal work doing general blacksmithing andonly recently got to bladesmithing, so I think i'd get more use of a treadle hammer personally. YMMV but if your'e focused on blades I'd say go with a press.
 
Well, I'd have to agree that a press is hugely important-especailly forging Damascus. However, the powerhammer is also very important for certain operations. The hammer and the press 'act' on the material in different ways, and each is important. Both are very useful ---the press gets more use in my shop all in all, but if I didn't have a big hammer, I'd be looking to get one.
 
darren, any chance to get picture up of your beveling dies??
i also have one of rons presses and a power hammer, i use both in just about every forging operation - couldnt live without either. bb
 
JCaswell said:
Well, I'd have to agree that a press is hugely important-especailly forging Damascus. However, the powerhammer is also very important for certain operations. The hammer and the press 'act' on the material in different ways, and each is important. Both are very useful ---the press gets more use in my shop all in all, but if I didn't have a big hammer, I'd be looking to get one.
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I must agree whole heartetly. The press for me is my grunt machine. I can move material very fast on the press. It can also finess the work with minute press action. The major problem I have with the press is getting a real flat surface. Also welding up any open surface seams on damascus is hard with a press. The press seems to push through to the middle of the billet. The hammer on the other hand (100lb beaudry) is more useful for refining a billet, squaring it up making it nice and flat. Also welding up those surface imperfections all are done with the hammer. When I got my press I came within one phonecall from selling my hammer. Thankfully Don Fogg talked me out of it.

If I could only have one it would be the press then a POWER hammer and if I absolutely could not get either the the treadal hammer would be better than nothing.

Chuck
 
rocketmann said:
I was wondering which would you find more usefull for general bladesmithing a hydraulic press or a treadle hammer?
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Here's what you need, one of these:

RonClaiborne.JPG


No, not the ugly guy in the middle, that's Ron Claiborne, trust me you don't want one of him around :D but either one of those pretty presses would serve you well! ...and yes, they are level, but his shop floor isn't!

:)

-Darren
 
cadillac forge said:
darren, any chance to get picture up of your beveling dies??
i also have one of rons presses and a power hammer, i use both in just about every forging operation - couldnt live without either. bb
Click to expand...

Hi BB, Here are some pics I snapped today while over at Ron's place:

BevelDies1.JPG


BevelDies2.JPG



They're really simple, yet effective. I think he grinds a 5 or 6 degree angle on the surface grinder for each die. Make the length of the bevel long. The flat part on the LHS of the die is for straightening things out as you go along, so you want that part there too.

:)

-Darren
 
thanks darren and ron for the pics, i will try to duplicate these next weekend
you guys are lucky, to live so close together-throw fuad and a couple of others in who live close = mini hammerins often-- those presses needs the paint burned off them and covered in scale . thanks again bb
 
If you checkout the Center Cross cable damascus video, you will see some pretty neat dies. Gene as a pointing die that is made from what looks like 3/8 inch plate. That and his beveling dies seem to work very well. Thatnks to Mr. Ellis for posting that pick. That looks like an easy, yet elegant solution for me when I finally have a place to assemble my press:D As for forging stick tangs, check out Ed Caffrey's Basic Baldesmithing video. He finsishes drawig it out with the Little Giant, but you can tell that the press does most of the "heavy lifting and finsishing by hand would be a breeze after breaking down the stock with the press.
 
Forgive my ignorance, but with the hydraulic press- is it air powered- and does the air powered type just require one continuous handle push?
 
No, hydraulic means fluid powered, such as a hydraulic jack. You're thinking pneumatic, which is air powered.
 
Hi Darren and Ron, Thanks for the generous peak at the bevel dies. TO Guy, someone with experience will correct me, but no air, they're running on hydraulic fluid. It probably has a dual action cylinder where the downward press and the upward retraction can be controlled with that lever on the left.
Take care, Craig

sorry bjalongi, I'm slow on the typing thing here
 
I think he may be thinking of what is sometimes called 'air-over-hydraulic' systems. The first press I built used one of these. The hydraulic ram/air motor was lifted from a truck jack. This type of ram is like a bottle jack, but instead of pumping a lever, you have an air motor that pumps the thing. It's hydraulic power actuated by an air motor.
The problem with this is it's very slow compared with a 'real' hydraulic set up with electric motor, pump, ram, etc.
 
Dangit Darren! Now you've gone and reminded me how much I want one of Ron's presses! I need to start knocking over liquor stores or something....this day job isn't cutting it ;)

-d
 
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