What is the attraction of s30v and family of steels?

[DennisStrickland]

guess we will argue alloys till the sun turns black. most of the atomic alloys as mentioned were made for industrial uses. certainly powdered graphite & granules to make zinc mouldings eat up dies & spray nozzles giving purpose to build stronger, longer lasting componets. knives are actually only a small percentage of the demand for these products. our guys that work out the heattreats & applications of these alphabet alloys are the real heros not the metals. some custom fellows such as Phil Wilson can probably make soda cans outcut tungsten carbide. i believe way too much credit is heaped on the steel instead of the felloes that wrinkle the stuff to get performance..--dennis

 

[nsm]

Jantz has bought CPM S90-V over the past year from us and I'm sure he will buy more as needed. We have some CPM S125-V in stock but I know it is a bear to work with and it will probably be on our shelf for a long time. We have a few thousand pounds of CPM S110-V slab on order from Crucible. It should be available in sheet form by late summer.

 

[crom]

My only current "super" steel is a s60v Blur and in the year and a half I've EDC'd it (yes, just about every day, it's my work knife) I have been very pleased with its performance. However, because I am aware that it could be a bear to restore an edge, I possibly touch it up more often? There was one occasion where I cut a regular old telephone cable (I am an IT admin by profession) and it really dented the edge. It was hard to sharpen out. I've cut telephone and Cat 5 cable with "lesser" steels with no such damage. I really have no reason to cut things for an extended period of time without access to my stones and rods so I guess I haven't really tested the Blur. I did perform a impromptu test recently though when I installed carpet in my living room. I chose 2 knives by eyeballing (I know, not very scientific) the edge geometry; a BHK Tiger Knapp in o1 and a Buck 186 (Bucklite) in 420HC. The edges on both are nice and thin, very sharp (had both at hair-shaving without much effort) and both blades are about same thickness, grind. I was curious to see the difference in edge holding using these to trim the carpet padding. Carpet padding is tough stuff. I really expected the o1 to cut circles around the Buck. But I found I needed to touch them up about as often, maybe a slight edge to the BHK knife in cutting endurance. Not poo-pooing high zoot steels, I just don't get caught up in the desire for them. I'm happy with regular old 1095 and D2 that's much cheaper, easily obtainable, and has great performance. To me it's like cars; how many people will ever push their 300+ HP car to its limits? Everybody have a great weekend. Not to hijack this thread, but I just got my knife back from David Farmer where it went for repair and R & R. This knife will shave the proverbial hair of a fleas nuts.

 

[Ankerson]

My only current "super" steel is a s60v Blur and in the year and a half I've EDC'd it (yes, just about every day, it's my work knife) I have been very pleased with its performance. However, because I am aware that it could be a bear to restore an edge, I possibly touch it up more often? There was one occasion where I cut a regular old telephone cable (I am an IT admin by profession) and it really dented the edge. It was hard to sharpen out. I've cut telephone and Cat 5 cable with "lesser" steels with no such damage. I really have no reason to cut things for an extended period of time without access to my stones and rods so I guess I haven't really tested the Blur. I did perform a impromptu test recently though when I installed carpet in my living room. I chose 2 knives by eyeballing (I know, not very scientific) the edge geometry; a BHK Tiger Knapp in o1 and a Buck 186 (Bucklite) in 420HC. The edges on both are nice and thin, very sharp (had both at hair-shaving without much effort) and both blades are about same thickness, grind. I was curious to see the difference in edge holding using these to trim the carpet padding. Carpet padding is tough stuff. I really expected the o1 to cut circles around the Buck. But I found I needed to touch them up about as often, maybe a slight edge to the BHK knife in cutting endurance. Not poo-pooing high zoot steels, I just don't get caught up in the desire for them. I'm happy with regular old 1095 and D2 that's much cheaper, easily obtainable, and has great performance. To me it's like cars; how many people will ever push their 300+ HP car to its limits? Everybody have a great weekend. Not to hijack this thread, but I just got my knife back from David Farmer where it went for repair and R & R. This knife will shave the proverbial hair of a fleas nuts.

S60V really isn't the best steel to base a broad opinion on, it's not strong at all, but it does have good edge retention.

S90V, S110V, ELMAX, M390 etc would have faired better.

 

[wolf-man-12]

I just plain like the Steel (as I have 8 knives with it) and I guess when you come right down to it ~~ you just got to love it.~~!!

 

[Joshua J.]

How many people remember the Cobalt blade phase? I still think those were silly.
Is S30V a fad? Will S35VN be a fad? Was S60V a fad? Will S90V get left in the dust and totally forgotten once enough people start making knives with S110V or some hyper alloy from Carpenter Steel?

Yup.

The name may be a fad, but high alloy content is a trend, a trend that has been gaining momentum for more than a decade now.

Is super wear resistant steel for everyone? No. If your edge is dulling by some method other than abrasion then something like 1095 hardened to Rc 65 will probably do much better.
Everything is a trade off and no steel type can do everything best (yet), it's up to us to find out what our needs are and which steel suits our uses. Super wear resistant steel is one option, it will not do everything best, but it definitely will do some things best. If it works for you, great, if not don't blame the steel. We know it is wear resistant, but how that affects the behavior of a knife is still up for interpretation by the end user.

 

[Ankerson]

How many people remember the Cobalt blade phase? I still think those were silly.
Is S30V a fad? Will S35VN be a fad? Was S60V a fad? Will S90V get left in the dust and totally forgotten once enough people start making knives with S110V or some hyper alloy from Carpenter Steel?

Yup.

The name may be a fad, but high alloy content is a trend, a trend that has been gaining momentum for more than a decade now.

Is super wear resistant steel for everyone? No. If your edge is dulling by some method other than abrasion then something like 1095 hardened to Rc 65 will probably do much better.
Everything is a trade off and no steel type can do everything best (yet), it's up to us to find out what our needs are and which steel suits our uses. Super wear resistant steel is one option, it will not do everything best, but it definitely will do some things best. If it works for you, great, if not don't blame the steel. We know it is wear resistant, but how that affects the behavior of a knife is still up for interpretation by the end user.

S90V is hardly a fad, it's been around for a very long time now, S110V has been around long enough also and neither are going away.

There really isn't any steel on it's way that will put either of these into the grave because any steel that has that much wear resistance is also going to be just as hard or harder to work with and likely more expensive.

 

[Noctis3880]

Perhaps something with 3rd generation PM technology and 9% vanadium content. I merely assume the finer grain structure will mean a finer edge, better toughness and easier grindability.

 

[Ankerson]

Perhaps something with 3rd generation PM technology and 9% vanadium content. I merely assume the finer grain structure will mean a finer edge, better toughness and easier grindability.

VANAX 75 maybe if they ever get it into production.

 

[Noctis3880]

This might come as a surprise, but I find that doubtful. The reason being that the steel as you said would cost significantly more than the other 9% vanadium carbon counterparts. I was thinking along the lines of Bohler's own version of 9% vanadium stainless. However, I don't think it was ever made clear whether Carpenter's Micro-Clean series was a 3rd generation PM steel or not, as I've only heard Bohler coin that term. Though I suspect they could be given the exceptional performance of CTS-XHP. In which case, CTS-20CP might be the next flavor of the month:thumbup:.

 

[Joshua J.]

S90V is hardly a fad, it's been around for a very long time now, S110V has been around long enough also and neither are going away.

There really isn't any steel on it's way that will put either of these into the grave because any steel that has that much wear resistance is also going to be just as hard or harder to work with and likely more expensive.

I wish S90V were a fad. By now S110V should be the standard high end stainless steel from Crucible. Once it reaches that status I really don't see a need for S90V.

 

[Ankerson]

This might come as a surprise, but I find that doubtful. The reason being that the steel as you said would cost significantly more than the other 9% vanadium carbon counterparts. I was thinking along the lines of Bohler's own version of 9% vanadium stainless. However, I don't think it was ever made clear whether Carpenter's Micro-Clean series was a 3rd generation PM steel or not, as I've only heard Bohler coin that term. Though I suspect they could be given the exceptional performance of CTS-XHP. In which case, CTS-20CP might be the next flavor of the month:thumbup:.

Vanax 75 is a Bohler steel.

Carpenter doesn't make 3rd generation steels, they are 2nd generation.

 

[Ankerson]

I wish S90V were a fad. By now S110V should be the standard high end stainless steel from Crucible. Once it reaches that status I really don't see a need for S90V.

S110V isn't easy to roll out into sheets so they can make knives out of it.

That's one of the main reasons why there isn't very much of it around.

 

[FlaMtnBkr]

Wasn't S60V discontinued a couple years ago? And how many people have actually used S110V?

If you can't tell a difference between a high end flavor of the month steel like S90V and the steel in a plain Buck 110 then you aren't using your knife hard or cutting abrasive materials. I find the difference obvious in use and will take a hyped super steel over low end steel every time. I can tell a big difference. If you can't and are content with decades old alloys then I assume your wallet likes you.

This is also a hobby for some so a couple thousand dollars spent on knives over a couple years really isn't that expensive compared to many other hobbies and living expenses. Even if some of the money goes towards hype it is worth it to some whether it is to collect or to test out to see how good it really is.

 

[Alberta Ed]

CPM steels are great, IMHO, both S30V and 154. CPM 154 is easier to sharpen than S30V and seems to take a finer edge; S30V may hold its edge longer. In real life use it would be difficult to tell the difference. But my favourite blades for toughness, easy sharpening and edge retention are good old high carbon steel: W9 (Krupp, used by Roselli), 1095, 1070 (Ivan Campos Scandi), 52100 (Marble's) and Carbon V (Cold Steel).

 

[Ankerson]

CPM steels are great, IMHO, both S30V and 154. CPM 154 is easier to sharpen than S30V and seems to take a finer edge; S30V may hold its edge longer. In real life use it would be difficult to tell the difference. But my favourite blades for toughness, easy sharpening and edge retention are good old high carbon steel: W9 (Krupp, used by Roselli), 1095, 1070 (Ivan Campos Scandi), 52100 (Marble's) and Carbon V (Cold Steel).

S30V will take a refined edge like CPM 154 will, but it more difficult and it takes longer to get it there.

It's just the differece in the Alloys in the steels.

 

[JNewell]

Cost and production (at the knife manufacturer level) will keep either from becoming common.

S30V has been around long enough and is used by so many makers that it's hard to call it a fad. It's mainstream, even if it appears to be on the verge of yielding to its close kin, S35VN.

I wish S90V were a fad. By now S110V should be the standard high end stainless steel from Crucible. Once it reaches that status I really don't see a need for S90V.

 

[Joshua J.]

S110V isn't easy to roll out into sheets so they can make knives out of it.

That's one of the main reasons why there isn't very much of it around.

Crucible needs to get their act together and build better rollers.
Silly companies not catering to my whim, don't they know that I know everything that is best for them?

 

[Ankerson]

Crucible needs to get their act together and build better rollers.
Silly companies not catering to my whim, don't they know that I know everything that is best for them?

Not quite that simple....

 

[SteelSnob]

I have always hated S30V and I've said it for a long time. Doesn't hold a good edge,chips and is a pain in the ass to sharpen. I'll take CPM154 if (HTed properly) over any steel I've tried yet.