what is the best mace

S

sasha

Joined
Feb 28, 2006
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On another Forum mace was mentioned. Im sure some of you on here are LEOs. My Q is what is the strongest Mace out there. Something that have the best chance of taking someone down fast. I live in LA and if i do need some protection i would have a better chance of having mace on me then a gun. If i do use it is cause i feel that i need it. Then i do want it to work. After all its not like we all can carry guns around.

Sasha
 
At the jail, we use Def tech for the pepper spray. It's a hell alot stronger than mace and has a longer lasting effect. Just make sure you don't spray yourself when the time comes and check your local laws before you carry it. Good luck. I pretty sure there will be others that will chime in too.
 
When I was in California, you needed a permit from the state to carry Mace (either CS or CN). Pepper spray (OC) did not require a permit. I don't know if that is the case anymore.

-- FLIX
 
mace_paulchen2.jpg
 
LOL Stevekt i been offerd mace almost exactly like this one earlier by our highly respected MISTER Q................. If i carry one of those in LA i get a better chance to go to jail then if i had a .45 loaded in my lap.

Sasha
 
What is the diffrence between the CN CS?? I know what the OC is. How do they work. I always like to learn the most i can about what is out there. If none of you mind taking some time to explain to me please.

Sasha
 
The correctional facility I formerly worked for used the FOX OC spray, and it worked really well. Made hardened 300lb guys go down to their knees crying, screaming and begging for water.

It also made alot of the deputies and other inmates just standing in the area cry and beg for water too.

Thats the only part I dont like about it. It has a high potential of backfiring and getting you too. (what self defense weapon doesnt have a certain risk of that anyway?)

Myself, and alot of the Jail deputies and LEO's have been gotten almost as bad as the bad guy when that stuff is sprayed sometimes. The jails I work in and visit are using tasers now because of the problem of using OC in confined spaces.

But anyway, I've seen some of these big aggressive inmates just drink down some of that weak orange mace spray and keep coming. The FOX lays em down quick.
 
CS: Was used as a military nerve gas, then adopted by police.

(From http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CS_gas) CS gas is the common name for 2-chlorobenzalmalononitrile (also called o-Chlorobenzylidene Malononitrile) (chemical formula: C10H5ClN2), a substance that is used as a riot control agent and is non-lethal. CS was discovered by two Americans, Ben Corson and Roger Staughton, in 1928, and the chemical gets its name from the first letters of the scientists' surnames. The compound is actually a solid at room temperature, though it is used as an aerosol.
CS was developed and tested secretly at Porton Down in Wiltshire, England, in the 1950s and 1960s. CS was used first on animals, then subsequently on British Army servicemen volunteers. Notably, CS has a limited effect on animals due to "under-developed tear-ducts and protection by fur".

CN: IIRC, CN was developed subsequent to CS and pretty much replaced it by police and civialians, until OC became widely available.

(From http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CN_gas) CN, or chloroacetophenone, is a substance used as a riot control agent. It has the molecular formula C8H7ClO. It was investigated, but not used, during the First and Second World Wars, and was used by United States forces in Vietnam. Because of its greater toxicity, it has largely been supplanted by CS gas.
CN is still supplied to paramilitary and police forces in a small pressurized aerosol can known as “Mace” or tear gas. Its use has fallen by the wayside as pepper spray works faster and disperses more quickly than CN.
The term "Mace" came into being because it was the brand-name invented by one of the first American manufacturers of CN aerosol sprays. Subsequently, Mace became synonymous with tear-gas sprays in the same way that Hoover has became strongly associated with vacuum cleaners.
Like CS gas, this compound irritates the mucous membranes (oral, nasal, conjunctival and tracheobronchial). Sometimes it can give rise to more generalized reactions such as syncope, temporary loss of balance and orientation. More rarely, cutaneous irritating outbreaks have been observed and allergic contact permanent dermatitis.

More than you ever wanted to know. :D

-- FLIX
 
One made of 1050 will probably be tougher and less brittle than one made of 1095, unless the 1095 is tempered soft enough that you may as well have it made of 1050 in the first place.

I've thought of making one out of a large ball bearing, which should be either 52100 or 5160, which should be plenty tough. :D
 
Thanks guys it sound like you answered my Q. Flix its never more then i wanted to know. I always liked to ask Q and learn from other people. If anything i were told to stop asking so many Q.

Sasha
 
Six if you get a ball bearing that big i dont think you would have the strengh to swing it for any lengh of time lol. The Real mace was made from a hollow ball. Keep the chain short or you might find out that you are prone to hurt your self more then anyone else (trust me on that).
 
sasha, you're describing a flail -- handle, chain, ball. Does take some skill to use.

Maces have a handle with a shaft, and a ball of some type with spikes is mounted directly to the end. Somebody pictured one above. Not all had balls with spikes, I've seen some that were flanged blades sticking out six directions. Lots of blacksmithing to get those together.

Lots of ball bearings are around that size. Industrial machines use them, large earth-moving equipment, etc. If it weighs one to two pounds, I know I could swing it for some time. No different than swinging a one to two pound hammer. Besides, if you are actually fighting, you are swinging it to smack somebody, not fence with it. :D
 
Sasha & Sixgunner
you are both sort of right ball headed maces were hollow the polish were the bigest user of this type of mace, but Six is right what you described is a flail.

As far as flanged maces go they were not all that difficult to produce. Some where acutally cast metal (the lower-grade foot soilder would have something like this.) Non-cast ones where just weilded onto a metal shaft.

As far as use and swinging one around "for some time" would be 1/2 hr - 45min non-stop at a minimum. And why yes if you are very physically fit this might not be too much of a problem for you the trick with these weapons is control. And using one actually takes alot of skill; and yes your not fenceing with it because you are not thrusting but takes as much training as fencing to use one effectivly. An over-swing or uncontrolled swing could equal death; also you are using this to block w/ too. There are historically recorded training schools and books on the use of these types of weapons.

The flail was acutually developed from farm tools that were used to seperate wheat. Many peasent soilders used these as there weapon because its what they had; and as the professional soilders saw their effectiveness they adapted them for the battlefield. The flail had advantages over the mace in that you could use an overall lighter weapon and have the same devistating effect due to the centifical force created by the weight on the end of the chain.

Oh and the mace shown is not something that would have been used in battle it. If one was ever produced it would be for ceremony, but even that is doubtful. Yes while there are historical representations of these they are speculated to be a dramatazation (think Rambo knife.)

But enough thread-jacking. To anwser your original question Sasha go for pepper spray and look for the % of capsasion; the higher the % the better. And even better yet are the type that turn to foam or gel upon exposure to Oxygen. This reduces the risk of getting some on you from it being blown back at you. Also by creating a thick substance on the face it makes it more difficult to see.
 
Sasha, what about carrying (in your vehicle at least) the version of pepper spray (AKA OC) that's made to squirt pissed off grizzly bears with? It is not hard to buy online or from mail order catalogs. I can't tell you what, if any, the legal ramifications of hosing down deserving humans (or subhumans) with it would be. It should be as entertaining as it would be effective, though. :D

The "people pepper spray" now comes in the standard spray variety, and in foam and gel types, too, I think. The latter two types should have less tendency to blow back toward you and more tendency to stick to your target's face. I suggest you not rely on the very smallest containers of whatever type you choose, but buy something that law enforcement personnel would actually carry and use. There is a shop in our small city that sells uniforms and shoes for various professions, and they also sell certain accessories like pepper spray, but having some sort of credentials and/or not looking like a wild-eyed crazy helps one to buy it there, too.
 
Hey Bare rib. I find that info very intresting. I also love to learn about old weapons and there use. Read alot about how they used to fight. Some of those battles lasted more then a day... Just the idea of going at it full on fight or die for hours. I got no idea if anyone could do it today. I know i would be one of the first to die there. But here i go thread jacking it my self too lol..
Dr Mudd i did look at the bear spray. But i dont think i would want to carry it on me every day. The gel and foam sound realy good. I would make sure to look for that only. It also would be great as a part of the Urban kit. I been looking at 3oz or larger. But some of the site dont list the amount of the peper. I think i would stick to Fox for now.
Thanks guys
Sasha
 
There are six considerations when selecting OC - Oleoresin Capsicum (aka Pepper Spray). Mace is a brand name like Kleenex.

1. SHU's - the higher the number of SHU's the hotter the forumla - Fox will have the highest at 5.2 million - nearest on the market is 500,000 to maybe a million

2. Percentage - higher percentage only means longer detox time not strength or integrity of the forumla (2% Fox is considerably hotter than Brand X with 5% because of the SHU not the %). The higher the % the longer it will take to stop burning. For Self Defense you only need enough time to elude, escape, or gain some distance.

3. Flammable or non-Flammable - check the MSDS or label - some brands use a propellant that can/will catch fire. Generally not an issue with private citizens who don't plan on taz'n someone!

4. Size of container - Trust me on this one...the less training you have (vis a' vis no training probably) the faster you'll go thru the juice! Most inexperience people dump the entire can in the open second of attack and then are in trouble later (because you've ran out of OC)

5. Type of delivery - foam, fog, cone, or stream? There are tradeoffs on all four

6. Storage - most people compromise their OC because they store it incorrectly. It must be kept in reasonable temps and it must be stored when not in use upside down - notice LEO generally carry their OC upside down - to keep the O ring lubed and prevent it from drying and cracking. Also OC must be shaked to mix the compointents periodically - once to twice per week for at least 8 seconds - otherwise the Capsicum seperates and settles to the bottom and all you're doing is spraying with the propellant.

7. (Bonus point) - Okay, I said six points here is a bonus! Get some Professional Training! You can be held liable for using this stuff if done in approprately and ignorance doesn't play well in court! Also if you carry this stuff then carry Suedicon decontaimination wipes - trust me again on this. If you hose someone then there is a 80% chance you'll get primary or secondary contamination from your own spray! Also have a back up plan if the OC fails to stop the attacker - it works about 70-80% of the time in most studies.
 
There was an interesting video of a cop spraying a perp then turning away. In about a second the perp shot and killed the cop !!! Never assume any of the 'less than lethal' weapons will have desired effect !!
 
mete said:
There was an interesting video of a cop spraying a perp then turning away. In about a second the perp shot and killed the cop !!! Never assume any of the 'less than lethal' weapons will have desired effect !!
Click to expand...

Ditto! :thumbup: Use it, but don't trust it.
 
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