what is the best mace

I dont think there is anything that is fool proof. You can shot someone with a .45 turn around just to have him get back up and ready to fight too. But i hope it would get me some extra points in case i need them. Been looking at the foam that FOX makes. I been thinking about getting the pads too but for a diffrent reason.. I want to try it on my self just a little to see how it feels. Then to wipe it off my self... But its a great idea to keep some on myself at all times.

Sasha
 
Troop ,,, is it that bad ????? Just in case what works the best to take it off besides the pad??? I sure dont feel like hitting the floor out of pain..
 
Yup. It's that bad. Even the next day, after so-called "decontamination", just wait till you shower! Yikes! It'll burn you for a couple of days. This is the closest
thing that if feels like; just use your imagination for a moment.....Picture a propane torch flame on your face, for a good 45 mins. It burns the skin, not just your eyes. If you get sprayed in your face, your whole face will burn, ears and everything. Your snot will hang down to knee level. Your eyes will snap shut, first of all. So you'll be blind for a good 15 to 20 mins. Water is the decontaminating agent...but all it does is cool you off a little. Nothing helps but time. Oh yeah...what helps the most is DON'T GET SPRAYED!
 
Damnnnnnnnn . So it works on about 80% of the people... What about the other 20% ???? I cant stand 15-20min of burning pain but i got no intrest to go at it for 2-3 days. You just saved a foolish guy here from lots of pain.. So how come it wont work on everyone. Is it cause they are pissed at the moment?? Or some people just have no reaction to it???? Let me ask you another Q, did you get sprayed with it before??? The way you discribe it sound like first person exp there.

Sasha
 
Yup. Really pissed, as in, "insanely pissed", or severely doped. Even on some drunks, but that's because they're usually "insanely pissed" at the same time! The symptoms (burning) usually fade away completely in about 24 hours. (And, that's after the next "hot" shower.:D) And, yes, I've had the dubious honor of being sprayed; one good dousing, and a lot of times from "proximity" hits from "friendly fire." :grumpy:
 
I've heard bear spray is best. Never tried it though and not about to.

STR
 
Thanks Troop.. You might not belive it but yes you did save me... I were all into trying it out so this way i knew how it felt. Not i dont think im going to do it lol.
STR the bear spray is not much stronger but the canister is much bigger so you can spray longer.. Well atlist thats why i learned from reading about it.. The funny thing i seen a few shows on the discovery where the bears actualy liked the taste of it after the first time they got sprayed. They also seemed to like the smell of it as they rolled on the ground where there was the smell of the spray.

Sasha
 
Troop is right - Fox is nasty stuff - Been there, done that, and have the tee shirt to prove it! Bear spray is going to be a tougher sell in court with the grass eaters/do gooders who sit on a jury - use it at your own risk. If you want a larger container then get Punch or Fox in the larger cannister.

All things being equal, Fog is the most effective with the fastest attack time to the respiratory system and eyes - foam is the least (relatively speaking of course) and is limited to effecting the eyes generally - fog is most vulerable to wind and has the shortest range. Foam is great for jails where cross contaimation is a concern, stream has the longest range but you can easily miss and goes thru juice faster than than fog - but again lesser effective than fog. Cone is the best "all around" for effectiveness, range etc. Everything has tradeoffs...think about your mission and select the best tool for the mission.

Buy some inert OC from an on-line LEO supply house and go out and practice on some static and moving IPSC or IDPA target -or better yet get a volunteer to simulate attacking you - have them wear safety glasses to prevent eye damage/infections/problems etc...find out real quick how ill prepared one is carrying this stuff without some practice and simulation. You will miss at first, and will empty a can or two before you get dialed in. This is not one of those buy, stick it in your pocket and when a threat attacks "I'll automatically become magnificant" kind of technology - neither is a firearm.
 
I saw a video today of a cop who got beat with is own sidearm after pepper spraying the wrong dude. Lucky he lived. Was shot at least once and still beat the cop.

Bigger bullets dude.

Skam
 
Im looking right now at the Fox stream. Im afraid that the Fog might get me. Its not like i would stop and check the direction of the wind. Its mostly If someone is looking for a fight, mugging something like that.

Sasha
 
I am an OC instructor at my department as a Felony Probation Officer.
We carry Fox Labs just like our Sheriff Department does. We carry the 2oz cans in the stream pattern. It's 2%, 5.3 million SHU. It is non-flammable and has only one opening in the can where it is filled with and where it comes out......some cans used to have the nozzle opening, then an injection hole at the bottom of the can that would become a point of leaks and can failures.

http://www.foxlabs.com/foxlabs.shtml

It is some nasty stuff to say the least......most police and sheriff personnel I have talked to would rather be tazed than deal with this messy, nasty stuff!
I have been sprayed once as a student and once as an instructor in training.
The worst part about this is the inability to open your eyes.....you literally need to hold them open with your fingers to allow water to get in to clean them out. We use baby shampoo and cold water to decontaminate. The soap helps because the oleoresin is an oily substance and soap repels oil as we all know. Typically it takes about 10 minutes before students can keep their eyes open without their hands but I seen some in as little a few minutes and some over 30 minutes.
The other factor with this stuff is it not only irritates, but it also makes mucus membranes swell and if you get enough in your throat and lungs, your breathing can become limited.
It's a frustrating pain/irritant, because the water feels great and you think it's gone till you get away from the water and the exact same pain comes right back! The good thing is it is all natural and will eventually wear off. Our city police officers don't get any water, they just have to let it wear off! :eek:

I have probably sprayed a dozen people with it on duty and every time the idiot drops to the ground screaming bloody murder and does exactly what I tell them! But I have heard stories of it not working so well and always keep my guard up. I definitely approach these people with caution when I cuff them cause they can still fight. Lots of felons have had it before, several times, and know what to expect and the "shock" factor is not so great.

Personally, I would stay away from the foam, it's harder to accurately hit the eyes/mouth with it, can't be inhaled as well and even if it does hit, may take several seconds to melt in and affect the eyes, plus, the person can wipe it off and throw it back at you.
Stream would be my choice as Fog may get you a little more and with the stream you can walk it around until it hits the right spot. :D
Definitely get a holster for it. I carried some in my front pants pocket once and it went off and I noticed my thigh was wet and burning!!! Burned all night too!! :rolleyes:
It's good stuff.....just be careful!!!!!
 
I ordered two..............
Kimber LifeAct Guardian Angel

It has a unique shape and trigger mechanism. It was demonstrated on tv, one of the personal defense series on the outdoor channel. They had good reports on it.
 
Quirt said:
There are six considerations when selecting OC - Oleoresin Capsicum (aka Pepper Spray). Mace is a brand name like Kleenex.

1. SHU's - the higher the number of SHU's the hotter the forumla - Fox will have the highest at 5.2 million - nearest on the market is 500,000 to maybe a million

False, major capsaicinoids are the true determinant of heat not shu alone!

You can get vexor rated @ 15,000,000 shu however the civilian brand is only 1% and isn't any more effective than fox + vexor doesn't effect the respiratory system.
http://www.zarc.com/vexor/consumer/specs.html



2. Percentage - higher percentage only means longer detox time not strength or integrity of the forumla (2% Fox is considerably hotter than Brand X with 5% because of the SHU not the %). The higher the % the longer it will take to stop burning. For Self Defense you only need enough time to elude, escape, or gain some distance.

Sabre red @ 10% and only 2 million shu is stronger then fox's 5.3 and their new mean green.

Fox labs 5,300,000 shu x 2% = 106,000 nozzle heat value

Sabre red 2,000,000 shu x 10% = 200,000 nearly double

http://www.wesfire.com.au/suppliers/pdfs/sabre/2006_sabre_catalog.pdf

There are also other things to consider, was the base used a pepper a jalapeno, cayenne, or a habanero? How refined was the pepper before it was used in the formula? Is the spray water or oil base ect.

3. Flammable or non-Flammable - check the MSDS or label - some brands use a propellant that can/will catch fire. Generally not an issue with private citizens who don't plan on taz'n someone!

Brands that are oil based and also use a solvent are generally more effective but not safe with EID's.

4. Size of container - Trust me on this one...the less training you have (vis a' vis no training probably) the faster you'll go thru the juice! Most inexperience people dump the entire can in the open second of attack and then are in trouble later (because you've ran out of OC)

You want a max volume unit, one thats places a lot of OC on the perp, you don't want a unit that has some weak pencil stream. After all more than likely a person is only going to get a second or two to hose an attacker! Also OC units should not be sprayed for more than a second @ a time, doing so can actually make the OC less effective as it will start to be diluted by the other chemicals in the cannister. (SHORT BURSTS)!


5. Type of delivery - foam, fog, cone, or stream? There are tradeoffs on all four

STREAM STREAM STREAM, if you have ever had to fire a cone/fogger type in any kind of head wind you'll know that they are useless and you end up eating most of it yourself!

6. Storage - most people compromise their OC because they store it incorrectly. It must be kept in reasonable temps and it must be stored when not in use upside down - notice LEO generally carry their OC upside down - to keep the O ring lubed and prevent it from drying and cracking. Also OC must be shaked to mix the compointents periodically - once to twice per week for at least 8 seconds - otherwise the Capsicum seperates and settles to the bottom and all you're doing is spraying with the propellant.

Most OC's today use chemicals that protect against freezing and can be stored @ cool temps and I have no idea where you got the "keep the O ring lubed" that's simply not true!
Click to expand...


Good chart that shows actual heat of popular sprays on the market: http://www.cqbsupply.com/hot.html


Go with sabre red 1.33% DPS

or

Fox labs mean green (new formula), the old 5.3 is an excellent spray also (it oil based and has a solvent in it).




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sasha said:
Im looking right now at the Fox stream. Im afraid that the Fog might get me. Its not like i would stop and check the direction of the wind. Its mostly If someone is looking for a fight, mugging something like that.

Sasha
Click to expand...

Stream is the way to go: http://www.defensedevices.com/fox-labs-mean-green-pepper-spray.html

The new mean green is waterbased however it's still nasty stuff, hotter then their old 5.3 formula!





Fox 5.3 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bm81VIJUEwI

Sabre red http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gHPb44ze_tU



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