What is the Grimsmo Norseman considered? Mid-Tech, Production, Custom?

[Mo2]

There is assembly line and then there is a single maker who hand makes them. Where does cnc fit into the equation? Cnc is extremely labor intensive also.

 

[Yonose]

If the customer didn't have it made to his specifications then it isn't a custom. Producing a knife pattern and selling it over and over is called production.

When I send an email with a drawing and have a knife made, that is custom.

Clicking add to cart and checking out isn't custom.

So a custom knife is like a bespoke suit.?

 

[FullMetalJackass]

Good CNC is as important as every other aspect of the build and asks for great skills. It's nothing derogatory at all and totally fit into "custom" or "mid tech" or High End Production” or “Whatever you wanna call a small batch or unique knife”.
I like good a finely CNC'd knife, more than 100 % handmade stuff. But YMMV.

To OP: the Norseman is a high end, semi custom, extremely small production knife. A bit like a MSC Performance or Benchmade Gold Class, shall I say

 

[shinyedges]

So a custom knife is like a bespoke suit.?

I would say yes. Choose materials, come up with a design, dimensions and so forth.

That said, customized can be similar to custom but they are not the same to me.

Full disclosure I had to Google bespoke suit the only suit I ever wore was green and issued to me.

 

[DocJD]

I would say yes. Choose materials, come up with a design, dimensions and so forth.

That said, customized can be similar to custom but they are not the same to me.

Full disclosure I had to Google bespoke suit the only suit I ever wore was green and issued to me.

I can live without a full custom knife , but if I could buy a bespoke suit like in John Wick 2 ...

 

[HowAmI]

A Grimsmo Norseman is a fancy sharpened adult toy (not for sexual use hopefully) that people buy because they don't understand that it's a customized small batch production knife. Overrated and Overpriced for what you get.

 

[W. Anderson]

Overrated and Overpriced for what you get.

Eye of the beholder and all...

Only way to get a Norseman is to pay for it, and for that, it's priced just right.

Not that I'd buy one.

 

[HowAmI]

Eye of the beholder and all...

Only way to get a Norseman is to pay for it, and for that, it's priced just right.

Not that I'd buy one.

Those knives are far from priced right. A lousy steel with 2 pieces of anodized chamfered titanium doesn't equal 900+. A Kizer has better materials for hell of a lot less.

 

[Mo2]

Those knives are far from priced right. A lousy steel with 2 pieces of anodized chamfered titanium doesn't equal 900+. A Kizer has better materials for hell of a lot less.

No. I would not compare it like that. That's just wrong.

But you can get a @North Arm Knives skaha with grimsmo like action. It's not ti tho. Rubins Titanium and tools has action like grimsmo too.

 

[HowAmI]

No. I would not compare it like that. That's just wrong.

But you can get a @North Arm Knives skaha with grimsmo like action. It's not ti tho. Rubins Titanium and tools has action like grimsmo too.

The NA Skaha is also overpriced. I'm not paying 160+ for a single steel liner some G10 and S35VN. If you look you'll see the fanboys of GK are fanboys of NA.

There's no reason why you should pay extra just because it has a good action. Having a nice action doesn't mean you can charge a hundred or hundreds more for your product.

The 940-2 is a better deal than the Skaha for the same price. You have the Paramilitary which is also a better deal. You can buy a a Southard for less than a Skaha while having superior materials. ZT has the 0801 (Original Model) although discontinued you can still buy for a better deal than the Skaha.

 

[Mo2]

Lol okay

Price and spec on paper is all that matters. Time and labor are bs.

 

[NickShabazz]

I'd argue that the Norseman is a (small-batch) Production knife, particularly now that they're only doing "makers choice" rather than building to spec.

But I also argue that Production's not a dirty word, and that method shouldn't be shorthand for quality. I've handled incredible unique handmade pieces (e.g. Stan Wilson, Michael Raymond), and I've handled incredible production/CNC pieces (e.g. Grimsmo, Koenig, Shirogorov 111). I've also handled pretty awful handmade, and pretty awful production/CNC. Production doesn't tell you anything, particularly, besides how many knives like this are out there.

 

[shinyedges]

That's exactly what it is, small batch production.

 

[W. Anderson]

Those knives are far from priced right. A lousy steel with 2 pieces of anodized chamfered titanium doesn't equal 900+. A Kizer has better materials for hell of a lot less.

I've seen designer jeans that cost ten times as much as my Dickie's and won't hold up a tenth as long. I suppose I should have made a watch analogy instead...

Not saying that's what GK are at all, just the the world of luxury goods is a strange place. People buy and enjoy those 400.00 designer jeans, and are paying for exactly what they know they're getting.

Eye of the beholder.

 

[TW-Knife]

I believe Ken Onion coined the term midtech to
mean a very specific type of knife he produced. These days midtech means all sorts of things.

I agree that “small batch high end production” is a better term.

Could be. I remember him talking about it for handle production but hand made blades IIRC? I remember reading about it in Blade magazine in 97-98 comparing the Microtech Socom to the Chris Reeve Sebenza too.

Never understood the term mid tech. What the hell does that even mean? Of all the knife tech out there, it’s the middle of that? Based on what? Price, components, manufacturing difficulty, or what?

So, you have a kitchen butter knife on one end and a Marfione on the other, does that mean a $1500 Knife is “mid” tech?

I agree that the term is BS and made up to sell knives to guys who think words make a knife cut better.

The other two terms make sense to. Mass produced and all the same vs one-off made to order per the individuals wants.

I gave the old definition I knew in this post: https://bladeforums.com/threads/wha...roduction-custom.1541129/page-2#post-17703520

If the customer didn't have it made to his specifications then it isn't a custom. Producing a knife pattern and selling it over and over is called production.

When I send an email with a drawing and have a knife made, that is custom.

Clicking add to cart and checking out isn't custom.

Custom defined to my understanding was anything handmade by the maker. If he made several versions it was producing custom knives. If a knife was made to a customers specifications it was a one-off custom.

There is assembly line and then there is a single maker who hand makes them. Where does cnc fit into the equation? Cnc is extremely labor intensive also.

CNC just meant it wasn't custom to how I understood it but mid-tech. Again, 20 years ago mill's were used and still considered a custom, but not CNC. So it basically was used to distinguish between hand made (even turning wheels and dials on a mill) and machine made. But this of course did not lead to a 'better' or higher quality knife especially when it comes to tolerances as FullMetalJackass alluded too.

Good CNC is as important as every other aspect of the build and asks for great skills. It's nothing derogatory at all and totally fit into "custom" or "mid tech" or High End Production” or “Whatever you wanna call a small batch or unique knife”.
I like good a finely CNC'd knife, more than 100 % handmade stuff. But YMMV.

To OP: the Norseman is a high end, semi custom, extremely small production knife. A bit like a MSC Performance or Benchmade Gold Class, shall I say

I don't think any of the definitions were meant as derogatory but to define what actually went into making a knife. These days with the high tolerances even on more economical CNC machines I would agree compared to 100% handmade on most anything other than a fixed blade. I would still take an ABS master smith forged blade or custom/handmade then. Like a John Fitch, Hossom, etc. Some of my favorite kitchen knives were Carter's while he was still in Japan.

I'd argue that the Norseman is a (small-batch) Production knife, particularly now that they're only doing "makers choice" rather than building to spec.

But I also argue that Production's not a dirty word, and that method shouldn't be shorthand for quality. I've handled incredible unique handmade pieces (e.g. Stan Wilson, Michael Raymond), and I've handled incredible production/CNC pieces (e.g. Grimsmo, Koenig, Shirogorov 111). I've also handled pretty awful handmade, and pretty awful production/CNC. Production doesn't tell you anything, particularly, besides how many knives like this are out there.

I don't think production is a dirty word at all, just a definition of what went into a knife's creation. Like I've mentioned, and seems to be the case, my 20 yr old definitions are antiquated and have been ruined by people saying whatever they wanted.

I too have used a wide variety of knives from all means of creation and found crap and gems in each. The old definitions I knew did not represent quality but just how a knife was created and to point to why it cost what it did.

 

[HowAmI]

I've seen designer jeans that cost ten times as much as my Dickie's and won't hold up a tenth as long. I suppose I should have made a watch analogy instead...

Not saying that's what GK are at all, just the the world of luxury goods is a strange place. People buy and enjoy those 400.00 designer jeans, and are paying for exactly what they know they're getting.

Eye of the beholder.

The thing is GK fanboys don't realize what they're buying. They thing because it was made by GK (really their CNC Machines) and because it has that "GK Action" then it's worth 600 - 2000+.

 

[stabman]

I vote that it should be considered a knife.
All the extra descriptors just seem to piss some people off, confuse others, and be ignored by the rest.

 

[HowAmI]

Lol okay

Price and spec on paper is all that matters. Time and labor are bs.

There is very little time and labor when you're just assembling and sharpening a blade. Both the Rask and Norseman are just modified versions of already pre existing styles of knives. If GEC made a new Barlow all they did was just slightly change a few things and test it out to see if it would work.

Material has to factor into real world cost. RWL-34 / CPM-154 is a cheap and easy to work with steel.

As somebody who is studying machining (and even if you don't), it's not hard to know what the difference is between easy to work with materials and bloated price tag versus hard to work with and costs what it should cost.

GKs have cut corners to lower their cost while not lowering the price of their knives.

- CNC Engraving via Milling is cheaper than sending it out for Laser Engraving.
- GK has a company waterjet some of their blades out which costs them even less than cutting everything from the steel.
- Using a cheap and easy to work with steel cuts costs, not having to grind bevels in any sort of manner cuts down time and costs
- Not removing the milling marks means less they have to do to finish the knife
- Soft milling costs more than hard milling
- Using fixtures and creating fixtures costs a lot of money, and soft milling requires more than hard milling.
- Offering very few options (at the time) meany they could pick what materials they wanted to work with which means less money and time.
- Being a makers choice also cuts costs down allowing the maker to make the cheapest knife for the most amount of money.
- Eliminating having to even grind a bevel by hand and using a soft cheap easy to sharpen steel makes sharpening a really cheap process. They also use a grind (which is fine) versus a WE to cut their cost down
- Taking a pre existing models that are over used and slightly modifying them doesn't cost much

 

[HappyDaddy]

This has always struck me as a strange "controversy." Why would it matter? If a knife appealed to me and was selling for what I considered to be a reasonable price, why on earth would I care whether it was labeled a "custom," "mid-tech," "production," or "super-duper production?"

 

[SpySmasher]

I vote that it should be considered a knife.

Why would it matter?

This is, of course, the most reasonable position. Unfortunately, just calling a knife a "midtech" versus a "production" or a "custom" versus a "midtech" adds perceived value to a lot of (foolish?) people who buy knives and that perceived value turns into real currency for anyone selling a knife. So we are all going to have to continue to live with these -- as others have pointed out -- marketing terms.

On a related note, a true custom or even a modified-to-specifications production knife probably does have inherently more value than a non-custom but only to the person for whom it was customized.