What Is The Most Edge Rententive Steel You Like To Use??.

R

rlinger

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Mar 29, 2002
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Yep, Which is it and why. Or, if like me, do you have a favorite but switch around according to whatever request or knife design is at hand. If it's a blend of steel or a particular forge - fine. What is it and why?

Mine, so far, is O1. As a Novice I am interested.

I ask why, and I shall say why O1 is my choice. Because it has proven itself to me and also because I have had a lot of fun learning its heat treat; because it was told to me by a knife maker who believes it to be of great edge retentiveness, and because it has out performed others I have so far worked. I do so very much like others and O1 darkens at the mere thought of water touching it but the O1 I have worked has been most retentive.

What is your favorite for edge retension and why??

I have to add this: the reason I don't push O1 for the knives I want to make is because of its love for tarnish. Other than that I love it alot.
 
Here's some opines of mine. :cool:

My favorite overall steel is 1045. Simple, versatile and pleasant to work in every aspect of both grinding and forging. People tend to botch the heat treatment on steels like 1050 (which is very similar) a lot and blame there failure on its lack of carbon. Its BS. Just know what you're doing.

My favorite edge-holding steel is S90V. That is because, combined with the fact its stainless. A rare few steels are built like this one and I feel its very well designed. Typically, I could care less about stainless, but the added Cr makes it a real bonus. Otherwise, logically, I'd use stuff like 15V or the vanadium crazy rich steels Crucible rarely mentions they have OR some of those rare Ti-carbide p/m steels out there.

The "baby" at the forge is S5 and I love it. But I use it purely for my highest performance swords. S5 use remains experimental and I won't be selling it for a while.

There's my .02.
 
I agree about the steels you guys enjoy working. I lean toward the CPM440V, except for the cost of the stuff. Phil Wilson had me sold on the CPM even before I had tried it, and he hasn't been wrong yet. My two centavos, anyhow.
 
although I think 440V is a great edge holder, I have to agree with Jason that Crucibles 420V holds a better edge, in fact it is the best edge holder of all the CPM steels that I have ever used.
 
I would be interested less in "what holds the edge the best" and more interested in "what's the best compromise between ease-to-work-in-the-shop and edge-holding?"

I'm probably wrong, but that's how I interpreted Roger's post.

There's lots of info about what holds the edge the best - but those steels are often very hard on belts, or tough to temper properly, or they don't finish well, or just plain cost too much, etc.

Where's the best compromise?

Dan
 
It may seem that way by the way I wrote it but I am interested regardless of machinablity.

Roger
 
we build slitters for paper cutting industry and cereal manufacturing ( you would be amazed how quickly oats, etc dulls a blade). the best we have come across performance wise is L605 also known as Haynes25 also known as L6,with special heat treating.
it is tough as hell, will keep an edge incredibly well under constant use, 24/7. i would like to try some Powdered metal alloys though, see how they compare. L6 is quite tough to machine though.
 
toolmaker,

Do you know and are you able to share that heat treating info for L6 here??

Very interesting. How does your L6 do corrosion wise under the use your blades are made for??

Roger
 
actually, the best edge holding stuff I have ever seen is Vascowear.
Now it has another name.............UNBELIEVABLY hard to grind, and it pits very easily.........Im sold on 420V for edgeholding, but S30V has the nod for the best all around steel up to this time in history, edgeholding, toughness AND hi chromium content for corrosion resistance.
No they are not easy to work..........life just isnt that simple!:)
 
I like S30V and am using it. I do not find it difficult to machine but difficult to sand/buff to a high finish.

The CPM 400's seem to be getting alot of votes on this thread.

RL
 
I tend to work on one side of the scale or the other, quite often. But if I had to vote for an "all around" use steel, i.e. grinding, polishing, corrosion resistance, resharpening, edge holding, toughness, heat treatment ease, etc, etc. I too would give the vote to S30V first, its seems to pull the many "scales" of function and workability nicely balanced, compared to all the others. I'd put ATS-34 as a great, secondary choice in this category.
 
Very interesting, especially the high mark you give ATS-34. Not that I think not. I very much like ATS-34. It just seems to me it has fallen to newer steels lately. I like working and using it though.

RL
 
Originally posted by tom mayo
actually, the best edge holding stuff I have ever seen is Vascowear.
Now it has another name.............UNBELIEVABLY hard to grind, and it pits very easily.........Im sold on 420V for edgeholding, but S30V has the nod for the best all around steel up to this time in history, edgeholding, toughness AND hi chromium content for corrosion resistance.
No they are not easy to work..........life just isnt that simple!:)
Click to expand...

Vascowear is no longer available however Cruwear which is Crucible's version of it can be had. I believe that Texas Knifemaker's still has quite a bit available. As Tom mentioned above, it is not stainless. Whatever you do, don't get it hot while grinding, it will harden and start knocking all the grit off your belts if you try to continue to grind it. It is a very good steel and it does hold an edge forever but it is also hard to sharpen once it gets dull. Personally, I like it. Its a good steel, about the best available for stock removal as far as edge holding is concerned and if you aren't worried about it not being stainless.

C Wilkins
 
IMHO, most of the CPM 400 steels aren't practical because they are next to impossible for the average knife buyer to sharpen!! Ask me how I know.
 
Rlinger, another shop does all our heat treating. It is an elevated level of Bainite that accomplishes this edge retention. L6 lends itself well to this type of particular heat treating.
They use industry standard methods, i believe US steel were the people to come up with this type of treating steel. I am positive you will be able to find any and all heat treat information on a google type engine search. I apologize i am not yet net freindly enough to post that here.
S30V is notorious for not buffing well. It can be brought to a reflective finish, but not a mirror. it is a great steel to hold an edge, but under the circumstances used L6 seems to hold up over time.
I should disclaimer a bit, industrial uses are not always good to use to compare to private use. L6 may be a great steel for the purpose intended ; slitting paperboard continously. However for private use S30V may be a better steel for cutting various materials, or powdered metal alloy for wood, etc. Just one of those thangs.
it does seem that the better steels are the more difficult to machine, grind, polish. the effort is related to the results.
 
actually, nifmkr, Steve from Alpine, Tn, had a knife out of S30V at the Blade Show with a VERY nice mirror polish on it. I think he posted a picture of it a week or two before the Blade Show. I didnt bother to ask him how long it took!!!!!!!
 
Well, I guess since nobodys mentioned it, I'll put my .02 cents in.

My favorite so far is forged 52100 heat treated by the Fowler method. So far I've been getting a little over 3 times the edge holding of ATS-34 at 59-60 RC with a cryo temper. Other than the fact that it's not stainless it is an awsome steel. Easy to sharpen, tough and cuts long and sharp.

The only stainless I use at present is ATS-34, and only a little of that. Will try some S30V when I use up what I have left for a comparison.

One other steel that I'm becomeing fond of is L-6. It's about 30percent less of edge holding than 52100, but it is the toughest steel I've ever played with. Although something of a pain to aneal in the small shop without an oven.
 
I have to vote for the 52100 steel also. It does hold a great edge and is easy to sharpen. I have used it for about 7 years and it never ceases to amaze me. I finally got it too thin for a cutting contest and the edge had a slight amount of impaction, no chip or roll. It did show me the limits (finally) for thinness for a chopping blade. I missed all the knots at home :).
There may be better for some things, but for me, 52100 is my choice.
 
So far, from my readings on this thread, I will put a bar of 52100 on my list of steels to try.

I am pleased at the high marks S30V is getting. It is one I like too from my limited experience with it.

It's interesting no one has yet spoken of any particular damascus blend(?). It is very interesting to me that no one but I has taughted O1.

Roger
 
I really like 0-1, but I don't think it holds an edge forever like some of the other steels. In its defense I think it is much easier to put an edge back on. In my experience o-1(heat treated by me) holds an edge about as well as 440c(heat treated by Paul Bos) and better than 1084(heat treated by me). Which is a ways behind s30v and 154cm. Although O-1 is very easy to sharpen and takes a very nice edge very easily. It also seems tougher than 440c or 154cm. I have not really tested the toughness of s30v yet.
So I think the reason you aren't seeing a lot of people mention it as their favorite edge holding steel is becuase there are many other steels that will hold an edge a little longer.
Kyle Fuglesten
 
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