What is the most minimal, low-cost sharpening setup that still lets you get a good edge?

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maximus83

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This is kind of hypothetical, but an interesting question to me that was sparked by another thread.

If you wanted to come up with the most minimal, free or low-cost sharpening setup you can think of that would still let you create a totally workable edge, what would you recommend? Where the basic requirements are something coarse to grind steel, and something smooth to strop/polish or finish the edge?
 
For capability with literally ANY steel, a single diamond hone in the 325-600 grit range would be enough for good or excellent finished edges, and even enough to repair damaged edges on all but the largest/heaviest of blades. If your finishing technique with the hone is very good, you'll need nothing more, or barely anything more, for stropping & cleaning up the edge. A simple leather belt, or a piece of clean paper laid over the top of the hone itself, could serve as a strop for cleaning up burrs. A single-grit 6" diamond hone of good quality can be had for $25 - $30 or so (DMT or EZE-Lap brands, for example), or sometimes even less (Smith's brand and others). If your finished edge is in good shape and you don't let it degrade too far in use, a $12 pocket diamond hone can maintain it almost indefinitely (think: DMT's 'credit card' hones, for example).

For most mainstream steels that don't necessarily require a diamond hone, a simple two-sided (C/F) SiC or aluminum oxide oilstone, of the type found in a hardware store (ACE, Sears), would be enough. Depending on the size of the stone, you might spend $12-$15 for an 8" bench stone; and maybe $8 for a 6" stone. Some water or drugstore mineral oil (~ $6) can be used to wet the stone. And once again, the better your finishing touches are on the stone, the less you'll need to use for a strop.

If you become really proficient with technique, even some scraps of SiC or aluminum oxide sandpaper can be used to (at least) create and maintain decent or good working edges on most knives. Grits in the 220-1000 range would be the most useful.

I don't emphasize strops too much anymore, as I view them as an unnecessary luxury if much money is spent on them at all. Most anything you'll ever need for simple, good or excellent 'working edges' on knives, can and should be done almost entirely on the stones used. Any stropping needing done, to clean up the burrs left, can be done on virtually anything that's available (paper, wood, jeans, etc.), with no compound necessary, unless you're looking for additional polish.


David
 
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Most minimal? Sandpaper. Use a mousepad for a backer for a convex edge, or a flat surface for a v-grind.

Available in a plethora of grit sizes and compositions.

Spyderco Sharpmaker would be another good one, albeit more expensive and not as "simple".
 
Honestly I jist use my Sharpmaker stones freehand for almost all my touchups.

The sharpmaker stones are not great for fixing a chip or reprofiling an edge though. Took me literally all day to fix a chip on my s35vn sebbie small 21. I have zero luck with the diamond rods.

I don't know why but every time I try to use a diamond sharpener the steel just seems to skip off the high points of the abrasives and no sharpening occurs.
 
first piece would be a Norton Crystolon "Economy" coarse/fine oil stone (8x2x3/4 inches, buy here for $14 delivered http://www.ebay.com/itm/Norton-Econ...on-/201780982854?_trksid=p2141725.m3641.l6368). the stones wear very slowly, so you are not constantly flattening them. next go to drug or grocery store and just below the Exlax you should find Mineral Oil, USP, $3 for 8 oz bottle. use on the stone and on your cutting boards. non-toxic, no odor. to finish, try this, Smith's fine diamond bench stone,(750 diamond) $13 delivered http://www.ebay.com/itm/Smiths-DBSF...354456&hash=item1c8fe778cf:g:regAAOSwKnVZr~CA (an outrageous deal, usually about $30 at Lowes Hardware). finally, get a 12" square piece of 3/8" cold rolled plate and some silicon carbide extra coarse grit. $4 for a 1/4 pound delivered. http://www.ebay.com/itm/Tumbling-Gr...024757?hash=item36204b1235:g:AZIAAOSwv0tVDefa mix oil and grit to make a paste on the piece of plate, then use to flatten your stone when you need to. so $35 and you have a pretty good starter set.
 
Lapedog said:
Honestly I jist use my Sharpmaker stones freehand for almost all my touchups.

The sharpmaker stones are not great for fixing a chip or reprofiling an edge though. Took me literally all day to fix a chip on my s35vn sebbie small 21. I have zero luck with the diamond rods.

I don't know why but every time I try to use a diamond sharpener the steel just seems to skip off the high points of the abrasives and no sharpening occurs.
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Try using a regular flat diamond hone in the 600-1200 grit range, to get a better feel for them. DMT and EZE-Lap hones in that grit range have a very nice feel, for example. And DMT's EF and EEF diamond hones can feel literally buttery-smooth under the blade's edge.

I've not liked many rod-type diamond hones (with a couple/three exceptions), because many of them combine fairly coarse grit (~400) with a very narrow contact area (triangular rods' edges, for example), which really focuses pressure and magnifies all that scary, ROUGH sensation in using them. Makes it very frustrating to acquire the touch for them; I fought them for years myself.
 
Obsessed with Edges said:
Try using a regular flat diamond hone in the 600-1200 grit range, to get a better feel for them. DMT and EZE-Lap hones in that grit range have a very nice feel, for example. And DMT's EF and EEF diamond hones can feel literally buttery-smooth under the blade's edge.

I've not liked many rod-type diamond hones (with a couple/three exceptions), because many of them combine fairly coarse grit (~400) with a very narrow contact area (triangular rods' edges, for example), which really focuses pressure and magnifies all that scary, ROUGH sensation in using them. Makes it very frustrating to acquire the touch for them; I fought them for years myself.
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Thank you. I will try your suggestion.

Its a shame because I actually like the rods for touchups. I never really use the corners becaise I freehand with them. I like how the rods are perfect for sharpening recurve blades so I wanted to become proficient at using them.

If you use the "flat" of the rod when sharpening into a recurve then the two corners of that flat will sweep along the inside radius of the recurve, one after another. I haven't found a better sharpener for hawkbills or recurves yet.
 
maximus83 said:
This is kind of hypothetical, but an interesting question to me that was sparked by another thread.

If you wanted to come up with the most minimal, free or low-cost sharpening setup you can think of that would still let you create a totally workable edge, what would you recommend? Where the basic requirements are something coarse to grind steel, and something smooth to strop/polish or finish the edge?
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This goes back to the stropping thread you started, but my response is still the same. A small combination SiC stone, some oil, and a few sheets of paper for your improvised strop. This gives you coarse, medium, fine.

I have sharpened chisels using this method and while not up to my waterstone or Washboard progression standards, they will reliably shave endgrain pine to a wettish look, shave armhair etc - plenty good enough for the multitudes.
 
Lapedog said:
Thank you. I will try your suggestion.

Its a shame because I actually like the rods for touchups. I never really use the corners becaise I freehand with them. I like how the rods are perfect for sharpening recurve blades so I wanted to become proficient at using them.

If you use the "flat" of the rod when sharpening into a recurve then the two corners of that flat will sweep along the inside radius of the recurve, one after another. I haven't found a better sharpener for hawkbills or recurves yet.
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You may still eventually figure out the touch for the diamond rods on the Sharpmaker. I mentioned what I did, because when I finally got around to trying simple flat diamond hones, after first fighting rod-types for a long time, I found there was a world of difference in using them. Starting at a finer grit, like a 1200 hone, is pretty straightforward. Then step back to a 600 and try that; it's also pretty easy and not much 'rougher' in feel. From there, a step back to a 325-grit (Coarse DMT) hone is a noticeable change in the feel, but still manageable after the intro to the 1200 and 600 hones. After following a learning path like that, I went back to trying my rod-type diamond hones, and found that my touch with them had vastly improved.

For recurve blades, the 'oval' diamond chef's steels work well, and distribute pressure a little more widely on the blade's edge. And they can be propped up or otherwise held & stabilized much like the Sharpmaker's setup, if you prefer to use them that way. I used a 10" EZE-Lap oval diamond 'steel' to thin & reprofile a Case Hawkbill in that manner, with the rod propped up at a 10-11° angle (measured with an angle cube), for a finished 20-22° inclusive edge on the Hawkbill. Tried that just to see how well it would work, and it worked pretty nicely.


David
 
Obsessed with Edges said:
You may still eventually figure out the touch for the diamond rods on the Sharpmaker. I mentioned what I did, because when I finally got around to trying simple flat diamond hones, after first fighting rod-types for a long time, I found there was a world of difference in using them. Starting at a finer grit, like a 1200 hone, is pretty straightforward. Then step back to a 600 and try that; it's also pretty easy and not much 'rougher' in feel. From there, a step back to a 325-grit (Coarse DMT) hone is a noticeable change in the feel, but still manageable after the intro to the 1200 and 600 hones. After following a learning path like that, I went back to trying my rod-type diamond hones, and found that my touch with them had vastly improved.

For recurve blades, the 'oval' diamond chef's steels work well, and distribute pressure a little more widely on the blade's edge. And they can be propped up or otherwise held & stabilized much like the Sharpmaker's setup, if you prefer to use them that way. I used a 10" EZE-Lap oval diamond 'steel' to thin & reprofile a Case Hawkbill in that manner, with the rod propped up at a 10-11° angle (measured with an angle cube), for a finished 20-22° inclusive edge on the Hawkbill. Tried that just to see how well it would work, and it worked pretty nicely.


David
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Honestly though I have had very little luck with those chef's steels. Those are really only for straightening an edge anyway with a edge trailing stropping motion. However they seem to do absolutely nothing to harder steels. They seem to be ok on cheaper softer budget chef's knives.

What I do right now is if my knife needs reprofiling I take it to my local Japanese knife sharpener. There he freehands a good edge on it. Now with that good edge it is very easy to touch up freehand with the sharpmaker rods and keep my knives very sharp. The trick is to not let the edge degrade too badly that a reprofiling is necessary.
 
Lapedog said:
Honestly though I have had very little luck with those chef's steels. Those are really only for straightening an edge anyway with a edge trailing stropping motion. However they seem to do absolutely nothing to harder steels. They seem to be ok on cheaper softer budget chef's knives.

What I do right now is if my knife needs reprofiling I take it to my local Japanese knife sharpener. There he freehands a good edge on it. Now with that good edge it is very easy to touch up freehand with the sharpmaker rods and keep my knives very sharp. The trick is to not let the edge degrade too badly that a reprofiling is necessary.
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I'm referring to the diamond 'steels', which are nickel/diamond coated, just like other diamond hones. Think of them as a much longer, wider version of diamond rod sharpeners (which it precisely is). Not talking about the grooved or chromed smooth steels, which work as you mentioned (though I use those types edge-leading, BTW).

As such, the diamond versions are capable of far more than just realigning edges, using EDGE-LEADING passes, as with the other hones. Their extra length and width of contact area also makes them pretty fast in regrinding new edges on any steel, no matter how wear-resistant.


David
 
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Cheapest would be finding locally available sandstones and siltstones and lapping a couple pieces of appropriate bond strength stone against each other until a flat surface is produced. You can also take a piece of wood, tap small prick marks in it, rub some grease on it, and then rub some fine silica sand on the surface to make what was historically known as a "strickle". Some people would crush glass into a fine powder and use that as the abrasive. These only work effectively on low-alloy steels, though. Cheapest to buy would be some wet/dry sandpaper and an appropriately flat backing surface like a tabletop with a little water on it to hold the paper in place.
 
all you need is a rock and compound. sharpen on the rock and apply compound to anything on a flat surface to strop the wire edge off. (news paper, denim, wood, leather, etc).

that would be the bare minimum that you can use to sharpen. if you have a coffee mug that could work, probably a little better since its somewhat flatter than most rocks.

example https://www.instagram.com/p/BXbBX2wAYHL/
 
Most 'rocks' will likely be an exercise in frustration, unless you get pretty lucky, AND have a knife not much more wear-resistant than something like 420HC/440A. I've been lucky ONCE so far, in finding a piece of sand/siltstone locally that was actually good enough to put an entirely new edge on one of my Case pocketknives in 420HC. It behaved like a waterstone (used it wet), producing a very fine, muddy slurry. I used some of that same slurry on a cheap paddle strop (leather on wood) to work the burrs off and clean up the edge a bit. Since then, I've not found any other rocks that did much good to the edges on that same knife and others, at least without also bludeoning & beating up the apex. The mineral content of many rocks, though it might be barely hard enough to technically scratch the steel, is also often too blunt/blocky in shape to cut very well at all; hence the 'bludgeoning effect' on the edge, and some horrid burrs resulting from that as well. I tend to think of it as working the edge with thousands of tiny, microscopic ball-peen hammers, and it makes me cringe. Might be adequate in a life-or-death scenario, just enough to literally save yourself from doom. But it's not generally what I'd characterize as a 'good edge', per the OP's original question.

( My own preferred 'bare minimum' would be something like a Coarse or Fine DMT 'credit card' hone in my pocket; if I find that there, I'd be OK. I can improvise the rest, at least for maintaining my knife's edge. :) )


David
 
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Obsessed with Edges said:
... If your finishing technique with the hone is very good, you'll need nothing more, or barely anything more, for stropping & cleaning up the edge. ... I don't emphasize strops too much anymore, as I view them as an unnecessary luxury if much money is spent on them at all. Most anything you'll ever need for simple, good or excellent 'working edges' on knives, can and should be done almost entirely on the stones used. Any stropping needing done, to clean up the burrs left, can be done on virtually anything that's available (paper, wood, jeans, etc.), with no compound necessary, unless you're looking for additional polish.


David
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We all still deserve a video of your technique David!
 
I like these super minimalist ideas that are being suggested, I plan to try a few of them. Not because my diamond stones don't work, but because it sound like fun, and kind of cool to be able to sharpen anywhere with minimal fancy gear on hand. Also I'm quickly starting to realize the main limitation for common every day type of sharpening is not the sharpening gear, it's ME. :)

  • Sandpaper. Never tried this for sharpening. For a solid base, would it also help to just take an 8" to 12" length of 2x4 and wrap sandpaper around it? If you were just going to use 1 single grit for maximum simplicity, what grit of sandpaper would you use as the primary?
  • Concrete. I've seen people recommend sharpening on super smooth concrete, like concrete steps. Is this urban legend, or a bad idea?
 
HeavyHanded said:
A small combination SiC stone, some oil, and a few sheets of paper for your improvised strop. This gives you coarse, medium, fine.
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What would be an example of the best bang-for-the-buck stone of this type? The one in your video?
 
There isn't any damn way I'd sharpen any of my knives on concrete. Could it be done? Probably. That doesn't mean it should be done, haha.

Sandpaper actually isn't a bad suggestion at all, though. You could sharpen a pile of different steels using the stuff if it's necessary. I'd still rather have a cheap stone(be it diamond or natural).
 
maximus83 said:
What would be an example of the best bang-for-the-buck stone of this type? The one in your video?
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Honestly a Norton Crystalon is the best example. ACE used to sell a good combination stone but now all the ones at my local stores are AlumOx. Likewise with Sears. The Norton Econo stone in the video is no longer sold either.
 
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maximus83 said:
I like these super minimalist ideas that are being suggested, I plan to try a few of them. Not because my diamond stones don't work, but because it sound like fun, and kind of cool to be able to sharpen anywhere with minimal fancy gear on hand. Also I'm quickly starting to realize the main limitation for common every day type of sharpening is not the sharpening gear, it's ME. :)

  • Sandpaper. Never tried this for sharpening. For a solid base, would it also help to just take an 8" to 12" length of 2x4 and wrap sandpaper around it? If you were just going to use 1 single grit for maximum simplicity, what grit of sandpaper would you use as the primary?
  • Concrete. I've seen people recommend sharpening on super smooth concrete, like concrete steps. Is this urban legend, or a bad idea?
Click to expand...


Concrete - no.

Sandpaper should be Silicon Carbide wet/dry. It has as a drawback - the need to use light pressure and a progression. For a minimal setup I'd glue a sheet of 280grit to one side of a thin piece of wood or aluminum and some 600 to the other. Use an eraser or synthetic cork to keep it clean. Makes a nice edge.
 
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