What is the most minimal, low-cost sharpening setup that still lets you get a good edge?

Last time I was at my local Sears store, (3-4 weeks ago), they still carried a 6" SiC stone. Sears' hardware is in a state of flux right now (Craftsman brand under new ownership by Black & Decker), so inventories might vary widely between individual local stores. I'd bought one of the SiC stones previously from them; it's essentially identical to the Norton Economy stone mentioned, and is a nice-looking & very flat stone.

I think, if nowhere else, the Norton Economy stone can still be found online anyway (Amazon, etc). Look for Norton part# ending in '87933' for that stone. Used to be at Home Depot, but not anymore. Looking right now, Amazon still lists it incorrectly as an aluminum oxide stone, though I've previously verified with Norton/Saint-Gobain that recent versions (post-2008) are actually silicon carbide. Amazon's pic in the listing seems to show that darker SiC stone as well. Price has gone up too, unfortunately. Norton hinted at this when I previously asked them about the stone, and they seemed to realize it was underpriced as compared to one of their Crystolon stones of nearly identical size, selling for around $20 or so, when the Economy stones were priced around $7 - $8 at the same time. :(


David
 
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maximus83 said:
This is kind of hypothetical, but an interesting question to me that was sparked by another thread.

If you wanted to come up with the most minimal, free or low-cost sharpening setup you can think of that would still let you create a totally workable edge, what would you recommend? Where the basic requirements are something coarse to grind steel, and something smooth to strop/polish or finish the edge?
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Use the bottom of ceramic coffee cup to sharpen freehand. You can get a very nice edge and it doesn't cost much.
 
Obsessed with Edges said:
Most 'rocks' will likely be an exercise in frustration, unless you get pretty lucky, AND have a knife not much more wear-resistant than something like 420HC/440A. I've been lucky ONCE so far, in finding a piece of sand/siltstone locally that was actually good enough to put an entirely new edge on one of my Case pocketknives in 420HC. It behaved like a waterstone (used it wet), producing a very fine, muddy slurry. I used some of that same slurry on a cheap paddle strop (leather on wood) to work the burrs off and clean up the edge a bit. Since then, I've not found any other rocks that did much good to the edges on that same knife and others, at least without also bludeoning & beating up the apex. The mineral content of many rocks, though it might be barely hard enough to technically scratch the steel, is also often too blunt/blocky in shape to cut very well at all; hence the 'bludgeoning effect' on the edge, and some horrid burrs resulting from that as well. I tend to think of it as working the edge with thousands of tiny, microscopic ball-peen hammers, and it makes me cringe. Might be adequate in a life-or-death scenario, just enough to literally save yourself from doom. But it's not generally what I'd characterize as a 'good edge', per the OP's original question.

( My own preferred 'bare minimum' would be something like a Coarse or Fine DMT 'credit card' hone in my pocket; if I find that there, I'd be OK. I can improvise the rest, at least for maintaining my knife's edge. :) )


David
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Just gotta' know your geology. Any siliceous sedimentary stone will technically work but you specifically want to find sandstones and siltstones of the right hardness so they won't just glaze over. I'm lucky enough to have a very nice quality ultra-fine siltstone virtually in my back yard, though the natural fracture of it means that most pieces are pocket stone size and not much larger.
 
FortyTwoBlades said:
Just gotta' know your geology. Any siliceous sedimentary stone will technically work but you specifically want to find sandstones and siltstones of the right hardness so they won't just glaze over. I'm lucky enough to have a very nice quality ultra-fine siltstone virtually in my back yard, though the natural fracture of it means that most pieces are pocket stone size and not much larger.
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That's the tricky part where I live (desert southwest). I've since picked up and tried many pieces of sandstone/siltstone that look the same as the one small piece I found (it was palm-sized, and even smaller after some use). But they didn't do near as well. As you mention, most of them just glazed over and didn't appreciably remove much metal either. The other issue where I am is, most of the stone around here is just too coarse-grained and blocky; lots of quartz-based stuff especially. That one fragment I found, seemed like a different animal altogether. I keep wishing I'll find some huge block of it sometime. Probably won't, though. :(


David
 
GatorFlash1 said:
Use the bottom of ceramic coffee cup to sharpen freehand. You can get a very nice edge and it doesn't cost much.
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I have used that before, and I agree it works, in the same class as a Spyderco ceramic bench stone. For a "poor man's sharpening system", ideally I'd ALSO like to have something that can cut steel a little faster, like a cheap bench stone or sandpaper, then use the mug to finish.
 
FortyTwoBlades said:
Just gotta' know your geology. Any siliceous sedimentary stone will technically work but you specifically want to find sandstones and siltstones of the right hardness so they won't just glaze over. I'm lucky enough to have a very nice quality ultra-fine siltstone virtually in my back yard, though the natural fracture of it means that most pieces are pocket stone size and not much larger.
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I am lucky enough to have found one at Letchworth Gorge. I have tried to figure out what strata it cam from but no luck. Most are more of a shale and this is a nice thick silt/sandstone approx 400-600 grit, breaks down slightly with water and hasn't glazed yet. Is a nice puck shape, I bored a depression into the back and use one side as a socket for a bow drill firestarter (got it to work in my backyard but camping has been a bust so far). It works great on my hatchets and machetes, I haven't bothered to test it on stainless.
 
Obsessed with Edges said:
Last time I was at my local Sears store, (3-4 weeks ago), they still carried a 6" SiC stone. Sears' hardware is in a state of flux right now (Craftsman brand under new by Black & Decker), so inventories might vary widely between individual local stores. I'd bought one of the SiC stones previously from them; it's essentially identical to the Norton Economy stone mentioned, and is a nice-looking & very flat stone.

I think, if nowhere else, the Norton Economy stone can still be found online anyway (Amazon, etc). Look for Norton part# ending in '87933' for that stone. Used to be at Home Depot, but not anymore. Looking right now, Amazon still lists it incorrectly as an aluminum oxide stone, though I've previously verified with Norton/Saint-Gobain that recent versions (post-2008) are actually silicon carbide. Amazon's pic in the listing seems to show that darker SiC stone as well. Price has gone up too, unfortunately. Norton hinted at this when I previously asked them about the stone, and they seemed to realize it was underpriced as compared to one of their Crystolon stones of nearly identical size, selling for around $20 or so, when the Economy stones were priced around $7 - $8 at the same time. :(


David
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Iirc the Norton crystalon has oil in the structure where as the sears sic stone does not. And apparently that makes a difference? I've not compared.
 
awestib said:
I really like the Norton Crystolon combi stone. I have both the 8 inch and the 6 inch. Their quality is excellent, very reliable. Here is a link: https://www.sharpeningsupplies.com/Norton-Combination-Crystolon-Stone-P179C206.aspx

$24 for the 8 inch combi stone.
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How does this compare to the economy stone David mentions? That economy stone ain't anymore; it shows $129 at Azon and I can't find it elsewhere online.

ETA: Ok update, I think I found the one David mentions, $18 at this online retailer for the 6": http://www.airgas.com/p/NOR07660787933

Or $15 for the 8": http://lmrtackle.com/norton-knife-tool-sharpener-benchstone.aspx
 
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Obsessed with Edges said:
That's the tricky part where I live (desert southwest). I've since picked up and tried many pieces of sandstone/siltstone that look the same as the one small piece I found (it was palm-sized, and even smaller after some use). But they didn't do near as well. As you mention, most of them just glazed over and didn't appreciably remove much metal either. The other issue where I am is, most of the stone around here is just too coarse-grained and blocky; lots of quartz-based stuff especially. That one fragment I found, seemed like a different animal altogether. I keep wishing I'll find some huge block of it sometime. Probably won't, though. :(


David
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Quarts is specifically what you're looking for, mineralogically speaking, in natural stones since it's what's actually hard enough to abrade the steel. Quartz is silicon dioxide, and is what Arkansas stones are made of. Just gotta' find pieces with uniform grain that aren't too hard, and like you say that's the tricky part. There's a reason why sharpening stone sources used to be fiercely guarded and would be exported the world over. Finding good ones was kind of a pain.
 
Sharpmaker.

If you live in the US you could maybe pick one up for 50$ or less used.

I can get knives sharper than factory edge and i've used it for maybe 2hr's total now.
 
maximus83 said:
How does this compare to the economy stone David mentions? That economy stone ain't anymore; it shows $129 at Azon and I can't find it elsewhere online.

ETA: Ok update, I think I found the one David mentions, $18 at this online retailer for the 6": http://www.airgas.com/p/NOR07660787933

Or $15 for the 8": http://lmrtackle.com/norton-knife-tool-sharpener-benchstone.aspx
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I have not used any other Crystolon/SiC stone - I know the Norton are good quality and the deal still is excellent so no need for any other type!
 
basmca said:
Sharpmaker.

If you live in the US you could maybe pick one up for 50$ or less used.

I can get knives sharper than factory edge and i've used it for maybe 2hr's total now.
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That's not exactly "low cost minimal" and is only really appropriate for touchups at the prescribed fixed angles, which (in my opinion) are too obtuse.
 
FortyTwoBlades said:
That's not exactly "low cost minimal" and is only really appropriate for touchups at the prescribed fixed angles, which (in my opinion) are too obtuse.
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Yes this is the perspective I've come to on Sharpmaker. I will never knock it, because I DO think it's a handy training tool, and for folks that never want to get into freehand or expensive fancy gadgets, it's still a pretty good alternative. But, it's pretty limiting in some ways, and it's not the low-cost high-value thing I had in mind here :-). Guess I should've named a $$ limit in the thread or something. Anyway, I think it's pretty cool that for $10 to $20 for some sandpaper or a Norton stone (less if you can find a good rock to go with your coffee mug), you can do a pretty awesome sharpening job.
 
The Norton economy is not pre loaded with oil so I use water on mine.
As long as I keep it lapped I don't have any loading problems using water only.

Also it grinds powdered steels well, not as fast as diamonds but the finish is much finer so in the end I think they are less work.
 
Norton crystolon stone is best for price and all you need for razor edge but i would spend little more and get DMT diamond plates as they give me nice aggressive razor sharp edge with no mess and are fastest.
 
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