What is the most wear-resistant steel for pocket knives

[ScooterG]

I’ve done a little research and it appears that S110V is a bit more ductile/resilient/tough than Maxamet. And the first time I saw Maxamet described it was described as rather “chippy”. Since S110V seems nearly as wear-resistant (is it?) as Maxamet, wouldn’t it be a better idea to use S110V? The Paramilitary 2 happens to be available in both steels.

Check this out. He does a nice test of Maxamet vs S110V (and other tests too).

 

[barmettlerjosh]

Personally I think that cpm-s125v is the most resistant steel but I prefer cpm-154 because it’s so much easier to sharpen

 

[Mo2]

depends hightly on many factors like the heat treatment and how its sharpened and edge/blade geometry.

check out Peter's tests here https://www.youtube.com/user/CedricAda/videos

and Jim's tests here https://www.bladeforums.com/threads...ed-on-edge-retention-cutting-5-8-rope.793481/

i have maxamet, s110v, s90v, A11 and a bunch more other alloys. those are probably the best bang for the buck along with a few others like 10v. i do enjoy M390/20cv/204p also, but no where near the edge retention as the few mentioned. tho, i have seen 20cv do particularly great with a good heat treatment in Jim's testing, and phil wilson does one of the best heat treatments as well as super thin slicing geometry.

 

[SGJarrod]

Since ur looking at Spyderco pick between s110v or maxamet. Decide on whether u want ss or not. That's ur choice. If u want tough u r gonna give up edge retention. Everything is a trade off. Just like the hot matrix with women.

If u want tough and wear resistance then M4 is ur friend.

 

[115Italian]

A pm2 in standard form s30v would serve you fine. Going above that in steel quality would be an upgrade but spyderco s30v is good stuff. If you feel you need more than a standard pm2 in edge retention go with s110

 

[hugofeynman]

For cutting soft materials, cpms125v or cpmREX121. For a really good balance between very good edge retention and good toughness, Vanadis 4 extra/cpm 4v hardened to 63/64hrc.

 

[Mo2]

For cutting soft materials, cpms125v or cpmREX121. For a really good balance between very good edge retention and good toughness, Vanadis 4 extra/cpm 4v hardened to 63/64hrc.

Good point here. These high edge retention steel types 125,110,121 etc can be a bit chippy or brittle with edge deflection. That's why steel like m4, cru wear, vanadis 4e, and 4v are preferable in some cases. While the edge retention is really great they aren't on the same level if say rex121. Of course many factors still factor in here such as the design of the blade profile and edge and heat treatment, for the most part this is the case. For example Changing the edge can result in less slicing capabilities but prolonged edge life in multiple scenarios.

 

[hugofeynman]

Perfect explanation above!

 

[evert67]

Thanks, guys, particularly the people saying I should base my decision on the fact whether the steel is stainless or not. I interpret your words a bit (even if you didn't write it literally) as saying that Maxamet and S110V have about the same edge resistance.

But then I came across this video, posted above, featuring a test of Maxamet and CMP 10V:

Check this out. He does a nice test of Maxamet vs S110V [sic, he means: CMP 10V].

The conclusion of the video is that Maxamet is a little more than 36% more edge resistant than CPM 10V. The same guy also did a video comparing CPM 10V to S110V:

The result of this video is that CMP 10V is a few percent more edge resistant than S110V.

The end result is that Maxamet is about 40% more edge resistant than S110. Obviously, this is only one test, but its method looks good and my conclusion based on this test is that Maxamet is about 40% more edge resistant than S110V. And given my initial question, I think that's a serious factor to take into account, next to the fact whether the steel is stain resistant.

 

[bearfacedkiller]

It isn't so much that I wanted to imply that S110V and Maxamet have the same wear resistance when I said you should base it on how much you value corrosion resistance. It is more that they are just both very wear resistant. It is about practicality vs bench racing sort of. It is like asking which pepper is hotter becasue you need a hot pepper, an orange habanero or a red habanero? They are both super duper hot and they will both give your food the heat it needs (or doesn't need ). Sure one is hotter but in a practical sense it probably doesn't matter. They will both get you the end result you want.

My experience is that Maxamet will hold an edge longer through most types of use (there are mixed opinions on this though) but in the end they are both off the charts compared to most steels and they both should meet most peoples needs in regards to wear resistance. So if you want the extra that Maxamet has and you do not care about corrosion then go for it. If corrosion is a concern then S110V is still a super wear resistant steel.

If you just want the newest highest alloy super duper uber steel (I usually do) then have at it but just know that it will likely only be a matter of time before there is a new one. I can only assume that 15V, S125V, S150V and REX121 will find there way to production knives someday. I am guessing we will reach a practical limit where it is too expensive and too difficult and possibly not durable enough but where that line is we still do not know.

 

[bearfacedkiller]

I usually dislike most of the knife videos on youtube. Too many unboxings and not enough testing or use videos. Mr Christy makes great videos in my opinion. I wish more people were making videos like his. He sure can sharpen too.

 

[Twindog]

Spyderco's new Police4 in K390 has a lot going for it. K390 is an A11 class steel, like 10V. It has amazing wear resistance, but it will be much tougher than 10V or A11.

 

[Lapedog]

Good point here. These high edge retention steel types 125,110,121 etc can be a bit chippy or brittle with edge deflection. That's why steel like m4, cru wear, vanadis 4e, and 4v are preferable in some cases. While the edge retention is really great they aren't on the same level if say rex121. Of course many factors still factor in here such as the design of the blade profile and edge and heat treatment, for the most part this is the case. For example Changing the edge can result in less slicing capabilities but prolonged edge life in multiple scenarios.

Ok you bring something up. In the last sentence you say changing the edge can result in less slicing ability but prolonged edge life.

You are talking about thinning the edge. Implying that the thinner edge will slice better but last shorter. Obviously thinner edges are more vulnerable to twisting motions which put lateral pressure on the sides of the edge.

I have heard arguement that taking out that lateral pressure as a factor a narrower edge will last longer than a wider edge. The claimed reason is that the thinner edge cuts through the material better and thus experiences less drag than the wider edge. This causes the wider edge to wear away faster.

So is it true? I have heard people claiming a thicker edge lasts longer, and others a thinner one does.

Does anyone definitively know?

 

[Twindog]

One of the findings in Ankerson's epic thread is that thinner edges cut longer. Thinner, more acute edges will also cut much better than thicker, less acute edges.

Thinner edges, as Lapedog says, will be more vulnerable to damage, but not just lateral damage.

 

[hugofeynman]

I’ve been there, searching for the most wear resistant steel of all! I even have a folder in cpmREX121, hardened to 68hrc, but didn’t test it properly yet. Those “glass like” steels are ultra wear resistant cutting soft materials, but cutting a dirty old carpet, for instance, will probably lose that crazy sharp edge fast due to severe microchipping. So now I only buy compromise steels, with good wear resistance and good toughness. Anything with more alloy than cpmM4 as in my trusty Spyderco Gayle Bradley, no thanks.

 

[Mo2]

So is it true?

As I said, in certain scenarios... Meaning things like micro chipping from edge deflection or what have you. But other wise you're pretty on point. Thanks for bringing that up.

One example I had was micro chipping on my s110v manix2. I made it more obtuse edge and it's rock solid now. Cut up a bunch of dirty carpet without issue (flooded pretty bad here a few months ago).

 

[Lapedog]

One of the findings in Ankerson's epic thread is that thinner edges cut longer. Thinner, more acute edges will also cut much better than thicker, less acute edges.

Thinner edges, as Lapedog says, will be more vulnerable to damage, but not just lateral damage.

Yo Twindog! My dog brother!

Doesn't that statement contradict itself? You say in the first part a thinner edge cuts longer. In the second part you say the thinner edge is more susceptible to even nonlateral load damage.

So wouldn't this susceptibility to damage cause the thinner edge to wear away and then last shorter?

 

[Twindog]

Yo Twindog! My dog brother!

Doesn't that statement contradict itself? You say in the first part a thinner edge cuts longer. In the second part you say the thinner edge is more susceptible to even nonlateral load damage.

So wouldn't this susceptibility to damage cause the thinner edge to wear away and then last shorter?

Yo, Dog bro!

When cutting something like cardboard, rope, paper, string, etc., a thinner edge will cut longer and more efficiently, all other things being equal (same steel alloy, same hardness, same heat treat, etc.). Same with a more acute edge.

But with chopping or prying or other hard use, a thin edge will be less stable than a thicker one. Same with a less acute angle.

Wear resistance is mostly about how long an edge holds up when cutting abrasive material. Edge stability adds in resistance of the edge to chipping/breaking and rolling/rippling.

 

[Lapedog]

Yo, Dog bro!

When cutting something like cardboard, rope, paper, string, etc., a thinner edge will cut longer and more efficiently, all other things being equal (same steel alloy, same hardness, same heat treat, etc.). Same with a more acute edge.

But with chopping or prying or other hard use, a thin edge will be less stable than a thicker one. Same with a less acute angle.

Wear resistance is mostly about how long an edge holds up when cutting abrasive material. Edge stability adds in resistance of the edge to chipping/breaking and rolling/rippling.

Obviously the medium being cut has a huge effect on which edge is going to be most appropriate.

I was imagining a medium like say, cardboard.

I know convex edges are supposed to last longer, what about a chisel edge, would that make any difference? I know a microbevel can make a huge difference.

 

[Twindog]

Obviously the medium being cut has a huge effect on which edge is going to be most appropriate.

I was imagining a medium like say, cardboard.

I know convex edges are supposed to last longer, what about a chisel edge, would that make any difference? I know a microbevel can make a huge difference.

I don't know much about chisel edges, but I presume that the same rules would apply.

And, yes, a microbevel can make a big difference in edge stability. I usually like 30 degree edges (15dps), but if they don't hold up, I'll put on a 40 degree microbevel. Often, I'll use a 40 degree microbevel anyway, just because it's easier to sharpen by a lot. Plus, a 40 degree micro bevel on a 30 degree back bevel cuts almost as well as the 30 degree edge alone and much better than the 40 degree edge.

Convex edges are always a can of worms. But comparing V edges to convex edges is not easy. A V edge can be more acute than a convex edge or vice versa. A V edge can be less stable than a convex edge, or vice versa. A V edge and a convex edge can be virtually identical. So you really have to look at the specific geometry of the V edge and the convex edge to make comparisons, but even then it's difficult because the edge acuity of a V edge is measured in degrees, while a convex edge cannot be measured in degrees, only in the intersection of two arcs.