what is the overall, safest lock - lockback? over

well i havnt got one but recently a friend got the knife i'm ordering (CRKT BladeLOCK 2) and i have to say thats one sturdy lock mechanism.....but most of my experience is with liner locks so i'll go with them, like said nothing can get caught up easy (eg. lint like mentioned) but my lock backs except when dirty with say a grain of sand might limit the knife from locking but i'd say liner lock or lock back both are the best....but there the main type of blades i've handled.
 
Personally I think it's great we have spirited
debate about the relative strength of various
folder locks:)

From an enginerring stand point Gollnick is correct
in his statement that a balisong is strongest of
all folder locks. I stand corrected. However, for
COMMON folders the lockback still is the safest
from a pure mechanical point of view. Due, in part,
the the limited surface area available to "lock"
a blade open. For that reason alone the age old
lockback "cheats" buy virtue of the "notch" in the
spine to enlarge the locking area. Consider all the
well known manufactures that rely on the lockback
design on many of their best hard use folders.
Their enginerrers and lawyers know what really
works day in day 365/24/7.

Do I think that the lockback one of the best locks?
No, I think it's one of the very safest availlabe
the public yet today.
 
pesh,

I'll say that I think you're going about this the wrong way. I do think there's one lock format -- liner lock -- that is too inconsistent for me to consider in a serious-use knife. For just about any other lock format, I will consider things on a case-by-case basis. There are relatively better or worse lockbacks and framelocks. Most consistent is the axis lock, which is almost always executed extremely well, but that's because there's just one company doing it.

Let's say, for example, you decide the axis is the strongest, safest lock going. Now you're looking around for a hard-use folder, and you decide the Spyderco Chinook is perfect for you. Perfect hand fit and security, perfect blade shape, etc. Are you really going to not buy your perfect knife because it's not an axis lock? The Chinook has an outrageously strong and reliable lockback. Provided the lock is up to the task -- and in this case, it is -- you're good to go. On the other hand, if you decide the Gerber EZ-Out lockback is your perfect knife, I'd point you at recent threads questioning Gerber's lock execution on these knives.

Ditto if you reverse the scenario, and decide the lockback is perfect, but you want an axis lock knife (my favorite lock is the axis, BTW). Ditto with a good framelock.

I agree that nothing in my experience beats AR Niemi's centerlock. But, that lock is available on exactly one ~$300 knife, and it's only available in an automatic format, which makes it illegal in most places. But, if you want one answer, there it is.

Joe
 
Something else to consider is that most of the locks discussed here (lockback, liner lock, frame lock) allow the blade to automatically lock in place upon opening and can be easily unlocked with one hand. If those aren't requirements that a lock has to meet, you can find designs that are much more simple, inexpensive, and strong.

The Balisong is just one example. Another could be the Opinel; the knife costs $10 and the lock is super simple, yet it's extremely strong. The downside to the Opinel is that you have to manually lock the blade in place, it doesn't lock open automatically.
 
In my opinion a good lockback is hard to beat in strength/ reliability longevity and for a untility knife they are an excellent choice

They do however offer more resistance to opening the blade than some other lock types (this can be a good or bad thing, but if you want one handed use then its probably a bad thing) and also its virtually impossible to disengage the lock and close the knife one handed

I think its a shame there arent more quality lockback designs around to choose from personally.
 
Spyderco, Cold Steel, Camillus, and now Emerson Knives have good, solid lockbacks at reasonable prices, that open and close easily but not accidentally. I rarely have a problem closing a lockback one-handed.
 
The quest for the ultimate folder has had me get some unusual lock mechanisms. From Blackie Collins Strut n' cut to lock back, liner locks, frame locks, plunge locks, barrel locks, REKAT's I think it's called a bar lock, and a few balisongs. I have to go with the Balisong crowd. When you look at one there is no way it could close on you. If balisongs are illegal in your location then either get shifty or maybe a frame lock from a reputable company. My Greco Falcon has made me a believer, Man is that thing strong! :)
 
My favorite locking systems are: frame lock, lockback, Axis lock. In that order. They're all great designs. The framelock on the Sebenza is an awesome thing, truly bombproof. I love lockbacks, too, and am sorry that so few new knives offer it. The lockback has withstood the test of time and will be around for a long time to come. I like the Axis lock a lot, as well, but I'm a little afraid to use it in an outdoor setting. Too hard to clean if it gunks up.

The liner lock doesn't even make the list.
 
I agree that the safest and most reliable is the latch-lock (ala Balisongs).
After that I would vote Michael Walker's BladeLOCK, then the Axis-lock, and then the lock-back.

Frame-locks can be really great (like the Sebenza) or total crap (like the cheapo Chinese frame-lock sold at Dick's Sporting Goods).
I would never buy a frame-lock without first inspecting the knife very carefully.

As for liner-locks...I don't think I'll ever buy another one. My liner-lock days are over.
 
If it's "walk and talk" that get your motor runnin', then lockback or slipjoint is the way to go. Of course, we're talking about blades that LOCK here, so that leaves "lockback". There are a few reasons that linerlocks and even framelocks leave me a bit cold. One big reason is that the knives really have no action to them. No personality. Another is that lockbacks stay closed much more reliably, which is something to consider when you're talking about safety.

A fine, custom lockback is the ultimate for me. Best locking mechanisms I've had have been from Busfield and Jess Horn. In my opinion, Jess Horn makes the most refined, best and strongest lockback on the planet.

Pete
 
With regard to Axis Locks, I recommend giving serious consideration to Chris's comments below:

Originally posted by CJ Caracci
I am not totally sure what the Axis is but I believe it is the button that slides in a groove/cam...

I was shown this design at some show by some guys who were Benchmade dealers and they wanted my opinion. After handling the knife for less than 30 seconds I told them, "you don't want to know".

Needless to say they did, so I took them away from their table and very easily pointed out why the knife could close by accident in a knife fight!

If you all haven't caught on yet let me make this perfectly clear, I am not a sportsman. I live in a different world I guess, and if a tool is not practical and reliable in the worst case scenario than I have no use for it!...

I am a user not a collector, therefore if a liner lock is made properly it will always be my favorite for a combat folder. The lockback for sure is inappropriate for fighting, and if the Axis is the one they showed me then you can bet your LIFE it can easily closed by accident by your fingers inadvertently hitting the release.

I do not mean these locks fail under pressure they fail by your hand or fingers inadvertently hitting or depressing a release.
Click to expand...

In my own experience I had a Spyderco Endura close on my hand while pushing down hard enough to depress the lock with my palm and giving the blade a twist (this was one of the old ones without the cutout). Lockbacks also have the whole lint / dirt problem.

My own Al Mar SERE 2000 has performed flawlessly, but a quick search of the forum will reveal others, as well as many competing brands and models, have had failures. It appears to me that liner locks are too susceptible to manufacturing variations. When everything comes together, they do tend to work well. Chris's comment applies: they have to be made right. I think they are the handiest for out-of-the-pocket, open, cut, close, into-the-pocket.

I've noticed no one here has mentioned the Lake And Walker Knife Safety (LAWKS®) that Columbia River Knife and Tool puts on some of their liner locks. This appears to be a worthwhile improvement (though I don't own one).

It would seem to me that frame locks have a little advantage over liner locks in that the lock can be much thicker and therefore have more pressure and engagement. Also, when held in the normal position, your hand actually helps keep the lock pressed in. On the downside, they usually don't put scales on them and they frequently seem to skinny to me. As far as strength goes, though, these appear to be at the top of the list in terms of inch-pounds of torque required for failure. Most of the typical lockbacks and liner locks fold up with 300 - 400 inch pounds when the lock works. I believe Camillus claims the Cuda Maxx takes 1000 inch-pounds.

Now what do we all KNOW is the safest design? Very simple: Fixed blades. And a good fixed blade in a Kydex sheath will cost less than most good folders and never give you any problems. So why, even though everyone knows this, do we all turn back to the folder problem? Simple again: Because of a bunch of absurd laws and equally absurd social pressure to always appear to be completely harmless when in public. Even where legal, we must always fold up our knives and keep them out of sight.

What a bunch of garbage. I'd rather have a Fallkniven F1 that won't cut my hand sitting in a Kydex rig on my hip and forget about what some nosey loser at the grocery store thinks about it. What do I care? If it upsets them that much, they're probably someone I couldn't stand being around anyway! All the better that they won't come near me.

And if we have a handful of politicians trying to prevent millions of people from being able to carry a safe knife, how on earth did we let that happen? And what keeps us from voting these pathetic losers out into the street at the earliest available opportunity?

It may be much easier than trying to find the perfect locking mechanism.
 
i just don't see the axis lock closing in accidentally if you have a proper grip on the knife...my hands don't even come into contact with the axis lock when i'm gripping the knife...
 
I have carried an Endura for 6+ years, every day through construction work, and all other facets of life. I have never had it close accidentally. They must stay clean, however. I have fairly large hands, and by squeezing liner locks, have disengafed them often. The compression lock for Spyderco is the best Idea i've seen yet-all the simplicity of a linerlock, and none of the risk. Locks up like a vault. I've never owned framelocks-I don't carry metal-handled knives. YMMV,--Joe
 
IMHO, I think for reliability : strength : usability : price in a high-volume production folder, the AXIS-lock has most other locks beat.

- It's completely ambidextrous, along with easy one handed opening, one handed closing
- Fairly simple requiring less of the proper fit of a linerlock (therefore more likely to get a functional piece OOB)
- Much less susceptible to failure under dirty conditions than a linerlock or lockback
- Has redundant springs
- Is inherently strong (probably even stronger now with the introduction of an 'integral' AXIS lock, although in use, the blade or blade stop will give way first in either rendition)
- Not susceptible to torque, or other forms of unintentional disengagement (even with fingers positioned on both sides of the blade, it's rather hard to disengage intentionally through use, and I doubt that anyone will stab anything hard enough deep enough/viscous enough to first penetrate the length of the blade, then penetrate past the front of the handle, then move their hand in such a fashion as to allow the material to congeal around the lock area)
- Through use, the lock engages more securely (locking bar rides up the ramp) (also, lock seems more wear resistant than a linerlock over the long run, tho' I don't have evidence to quantify this)

Cons include being harder to clean, and only one company produces them limiting choice.

You can probably tell I'm a fan ;), but I think that it's hard to beat in a working folder being produced in high-volume with all the attendant QC problems that are bound to occur.

That said, I think lockbacks and linerlocks are fine locking forms when executed properly. However, seems to me that the AXIS locks are executed more consistently (esp. coming only from a single company), and have surpassed other locking formats in usability. But I haven't had experience with compression locks, and balisongs will surpass AXIS locks in reliability.

This is looking at production folders; I think custom folders will inherently be more reliable (not sure though).
 
Point44, I don't think Chris is around the forums anymore to explain exactly what he did. My bet is he swept it with his thumb. Chris, I know the jungle is gone, but if you're out there, there are some of us who'd be glad to hear from you!

Dijos, I have checked out the new compression locks and like what I see. I may be migrating back into being a Spyderco customer. The Lil Temperance and A.T.R. are looking pretty good to me.

I think the Lil Temperance may be the best thing I've seen yet that would pass muster in almost any jurisdication. Most 3 inchers have thin little blades, dinky little handles, and reduced strength locks. It looks like Sal has seen this gap and is trying to fill it.

MrZ, Amen!
 
balisong. it is simply impossible to close it on your hand/fingers while using the knife as a cutting tool. when you start flipping, that's another story.
i have a buck 112, on which the lock has failed several times (cutting me each time). can't recommend that one.
and i'll also take a framelock over a linerlock any day.
peace.
 
Originally posted by alex_111
balisong. it is simply impossible to close it on your hand/fingers while using the knife as a cutting tool.
Click to expand...
You know, the only problem with the balisong is that we allow the handful of pathetic leftist loser politicians (that I referred to above) to keep most of us from being able to carry one. Other than that it's a simple and great design.
 
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